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Title : standard furniture vineyard

standard furniture vineyard

thank you all for coming. thank you for our visitors fromoutside the gsd for being here. for those of you that don'tknow me, i'm anita berrizbeitia. i'm chair of the departmentof landscape architecture. i'm very happy to have ourthree guests tonight here-- very distinguishedlandscape architects-- and they're here becauseof the particular nature of their practices, beingthat they use materials in very deliberateways to achieve very

specific expressive effects. we could say, even, thattheir work engages us at both a kind of perceptuallevel but intellectual level, as well, because theynot only make us look, they make us think aboutwhat we're looking at and that is something that isquite extraordinary in a medium that, unfortunately, most peopleperceive while in distraction. and so, when ilook at their work, i am immediately lookingfor something rather than

at something. their sensibilities,their references, their processes,however, could not be more different fromeach other's, and so i have invited them to presentfor about 15 to 20 minutes and then to engage each otherin conversation and then hopefully, as well, insome friendly debate. since its founding in 1992,the work of ken smith workshop has been informed by art,contemporary culture,

and fashion. typically, experimentationwith materials in landscape architecturehas come primarily through temporaryinstallation projects, especially in therecent decades, and yet, in the workof ken smith workshop, there is a kind of commitmentto materials exploration, whether the project betemporary or permanent, public or private,small- or large-scale.

and for this work he'sreceived numerous awards, and it's been published widely. andi cochran founded andreacochran landscape architecture in san francisco in 1998. in addition to receiving manyawards for her built projects, she was the recipientof the asla design medal and the cooper hewittdesign national award, both in 2014. i would characterizeandrea's work

as being extraordinarilyprecise, yet never hermetic. and it is in this presentationand re-presentation and elaboration of materials indifferent states and conditions that opens up her workin unpredictable ways. and then, finally, jameslord is a founding principle with roderick wyllie and geoffdi girolamo of surface design, also based in san francisco. as the name of thefirm indicates, pattern, scaling,fabrication, materiality,

and new technologies areimportant driving ideas in their projects that havea very wide range of scales, from topographical benchesto airport expansion plans. and their firm just recentlyreceived an honor award in general design fortheir ibm honolulu plaza, which is a fantasticproject, and emerging voices award from the architecturalleague in new york. so in that order, pleasewelcome ken, andi, and james. it's a pleasure to be here.

i'm going to start with-- i wenttoo far-- with fashion design. i've been interested infashion for quite some time. actually, i go to storesand look at clothes like people go to artmuseums, although when you go to the stores youcan actually touch the art and you can inspectthe seams and see how things are put together. it has struck me thatthere are a number of interesting parallels betweenfashion, clothing design,

and landscape architecture. both involve thecreation of artifice that fits an organic body. it's an artifice that needs tomove and breathe and change. clothing design, of course,has quantitative function, like landscape--in fashion, it's protection from the environment,regulation of body heat-- but, i think, more interestingare the qualitative aspects. clothing designinvolves identity

and personal expression, socialstatus, cultural background and ethnicity, sex and mating,and power and politics also play a role in landscape design. so i'm particularly interestedin contemporary landscape. here are, i think, twointeresting things. i think, in clothingdesign, there are similar tug and pullwithin the profession in terms of how you approach it. i think, in landscape,we have certain religions

that have war with eachother within our profession, and in fashion it's the same. madeleine vionnet wasreally an amazing draper. she used the bias cutbecause her work really reveals the form of thebody, and that's certainly relevant in landscape. issey miyake creates structuresthat set apart from the body and have their ownexpression, and that also is true within thedesign landscape.

a couple designers,in particular, i wanted to talk about. i think rei kawakubois very interesting. and there's a great quotein the ft a couple weeks ago that said, "shehas proven herself to be a rare designer who canembrace chaos while respecting the traditions ofher craft." and this is an early work ofhers, where she alters the knitting machines becausewe no longer make things really

by hand. i mean, there's that small 1%of couture that's handmade, but most clothingis machine-made, and most landscapesare machine-made. and in this sweater shealtered the knitting machine so that it failed inoperating properly, and it knitted with holes init and that was the expressive power of her piece. it reminds me a littlebit of john cage altering

the prepared pianos. he basicallymanipulated the machine to create atonality inthe way that kawakubo is creating a randomness or chaos. i'm a big fan ofmartin margiela. i'm wearing martinmargiela tonight. and martin margielareally comes, as does kawakubo,with an, i would say, anti-aesthetic, andearly works are really

drawing from thrift storesand going to flea markets and recycling old clothes. and a couple otherthings that he's done which are interesting--in the upper-left, he would take the insidesof garments-- the lining from dresses or theline from suits-- and he would remove them andmake the lining outerwear. and in this case, you can seehe has a very large lining that then he hasdraped and re-fashioned

on the other mannequinas an outerwear dress. on the lower-right, he'sactually photographed garments and then he's photo-printedthem onto other garments so that it's a trompe l'oeil. those are actually flat piecesthat are photo-realistic. but the show that i findkind of really remarkable-- this is from the mid-'90s--was the barbie doll show. and you know that barbie is notanatomically correct, right? barbie is an idealizedform-- idealized vision--

of the female form,and in landscape we have all sorts ofidealized forms of nature that we deal with and a lotof our garden traditions and the forms thatwe use are idealized. either they're based on idealsof what nature should be or they're ideals of how humansand nature should interact. and so we're alwaysdealing with these ideals, which are actually not real. they're actuallyoftentimes an exaggeration.

but what margiela did herewas he took the barbie clothes and he faithfully, mechanicallyenlarged them to human scale, and then when thehumans wear them, you can really see it telegraphsthe distortions that we have culturally put onto them. i think it's quitebrilliant and it's quite a lot of whatlandscape architects do quite a lot of the time. the other designerwho's interesting

is someone like tom brown. tom is really amaster of his craft, but it's interesting that thecraft goes beyond the form. he's actually quite radical inthe cut, or really the shape or the profile, thesilhouette, and so he's actually broughtattention to craft, but he's actually done itin a way which is actually different than before. and this is an amazingcoat by tom brown, which

raises a lot of questions,for me, about what is the nature of a seam? we spend a lot of timein landscape figuring out how to put this materialnext to that material. how does a curb meet a street? how does turf hit brick? and in here, you see a designersort of radically rethinking what a seam is-- a seamthat, in this case, is operable in acertain, interesting way.

so now i'll talk aboutlandscape in my-- i'll show one project tonight. in my office, we do work at thissort of small, exquisite scale. we just finisheda lovely courtyard in a historicbuilding with cables that support vinesthat go up six stories and has a ground cover of brokenmarble, which is quite lovely. but i wanted to show you amore complicated, big project. and i think the small,singular projects

are lovely because it's veryeasy to have a strong concept and really control it allthe way through the detail and its fabrication. it's very easy, i think,on a small project to have the craft completelyaligned with the concept. it's more difficulton larger projects. this project-- this isthe croton reservoir water filtration plant in the bronx. it's a project that has astrong overall gestalt to it,

but it's large enoughthat it's actually composed of a set ofspaces, a set of programs, and a number of systems. so it's not a solitary,singular thing. i have multiple clients--three clients-- there are multiple constituents. i've been working on theproject for 10 years now. i still have two moreyears left on it. it's hard to maintain a projectover that period of time

and maintain thecoherency of the idea through all the decisionsthat happen along the way. and, for me, it'sreally a question of how you sort out thetactical responses to problems and keep the strategicconcepts in mind. how you actuallylet the strategies rain over the tactics. it's very easy tobe a tactician. it's fun being atactician, but the tactics

are only good if they'rebound by the strategies. so this is about yeareight in this project. it's very late. we've completeall the documents. we're in construction, andthe new york fire department comes and does an inspection,and they determined that we have to have a fire lane. and so this red dashedline is the fire lane with these turnarounds, whichis quite upsetting to me

because it really throws off thedesign that we've put together with this scene with landscapegoing all the way to the edge. and now i have configuredloop around the edge. they threw me one bone. they said i could use turfblock because it was already in the bid package so that theyhad a negotiated price for it. so i took my turfblock and i realized that, if i took that big circleand i put all the turf blocks completely orthogonalall the way throughout,

and simply, as it workedits way around the circle, it would continually haveto adjust so that it always maintained a full drivablewidth for the fire truck, but that i could create a fuzzyedge-- an indeterminate edge. and that was really mystrategy for breaking down the configured form. you know, good craftfor a unit paver is to have an edge restraintand to cut the units and to think about theoversized units at the edge

so that everything'sperfectly composed because good craft is normallyabout expressing the form. and in this case, i didn'twant to express the form so i adopted bad craft. in this case, badcraft is good design. so this is duringthe installation. the contractor, by theway, argued with me. the contractor saidwe couldn't do this. he said that we hadto have edge straight.

they would move, andit was just ridiculous. i had actuallyanticipated that, and i had to work withthe manufacturer and i did my duediligence, and so i knew that the manufacturer hadtold us that this would work and that it wouldn't voidthe warranty or anything. so i won the debate. and so this isduring construction, and this is a few months later.

so you can see the fuzzy edgereally does work to break down another part ofthat same project. we're doing a sedum roofon top of the arrivals and receiving building. this is just a dumb sedum roof. we have four kinds of sedums. i've got lovegrass in two forbs. and i'm looking athow to compose it. and i've been looking atgoogle images of natural--

this is a google imageof the great swamp outside of morristown,new jersey at a very low resolution. and so that pixelatedform of a wetland is then used to createthe naturalistic forms, if you will-- the plantingplan-- for the sedums. and you can see the pixels. you can see therasters very evident, but in perspective itstarts to actually read

in a different way. so anyway, now let me backup and show you the project. so that this is the plant. the croton reservoirwater filtration plant is the treatment plant forthe drinking water in new york city. this is a $3.2 billion dollarinfrastructure project. the architecture andlandscape is over $100 million at this point.

i'm working with grimshaw. and this shows the plant. the plant is a 9 storybuilding buried below grade. it's got a 9 acre roof, andsits within a municipal golf course-- a displacedgolf driving range-- and in order toplacate the neighbors, it had to return theoriginal grade, which is why it's buried, and it hadto return the original use, which is a golf driving range.

this is the parti for the site. we're collecting the nineacres of storm water runoff, and we have a series ofstorm water treatment cells. this is also ahigh-security facility because it's the drinking water. it meets statedepartment requirements similar to us embassy. these are the treatment cells. and the basic notion is that weare camouflaging the plant so,

for security purposes, youdon't know where it is. that interests me becausei like camouflage. and we're buildinga moat around it. and so, as alandscape architect, i'm designing 1 and1/2 miles of walls. the walls varyfrom 3-foot height for vehicular interdiction toa minimum of 10-foot height for pedestrian interdiction. and we're using theseparallel sets of walls

to create a moat forsecurity, but the moat is also the bottom of ourstorm water treatment system for the storm water. the walls are complex. the tops of the walls aredriven by the requirements of the surface of theplant and other conditions. the bottoms of thewalls are driven by the existing topographies. and it's almost never thecase where the top of the wall

is parallel to thebottom of the wall. and i think at the very firstdesign meeting i said something like, well, fuck this. we're not going to have jaggies. no way. no jaggies. and so i spent about six yearsworking through this to not have jaggies, and so the wallsare designed from the top down, completely the oppositeof how you lay a wall.

and so this isthe first mock-up. this is the mock-up in thequarry up in upstate new york, and you can see the idea ofthe striated layers of rock, and you can see that, infact, the rock can be set to follow the top of the wall. this is the second mock-up. this is the approved mock-up. this is the onethat's done on-site, and this mock-upthen set the standard

for all the rest ofthe work on-site. all the rest of thework had to conform to this level of quality. i would say that one ofthe things about material-- i think you'll hear it frommy colleagues tonight-- is that material researchand mock-ups are really central to actuallydoing good work and understandingyour materials. this is a portion ofthe completed wall.

it's a robust thing. even though it's veneer,it feels very solid. there were somecircumstances where we didn't have enough heightbetween the ground and the top of the wall to meet thesecurity requirements. so in that case, we have anothersystem that-- actually, this is sloping downto the zero point where it's no longerrequired for security. and it's a wall that actuallyhas a hide-and-reveal quality

to it. on the oblique it's obscure, andhead-on you can see through it. and then there was the drivingrange itself, which is 9 acres. and this is what the-- 9acres of this 2% slope. this is the design, and itcreates a big, shallow bowl. it actually is graded upabout 12 feet on the sides so that when you'rein the tee boxes, it actually formsa bowl of space that you're drivingthe balls into,

which, spatial, is very,very important to the design from my perspective. but the problem wasthat we had a load limit on the roof of 90pounds per square foot, which means that the whole thing onlyaccommodated 10 inches of soil. and so this shows the concept. there's a drainage-- we workedwith paul kephart of rana creek for the soils and drainage. there's an amazing kindof drainage structure,

and then there's layersof structural foam mantle of 10 inches of soil. here you can see thefoam being stacked up-- the big blocks of foam. we did surface contours, but wealso did a foam stacking plan. basically, we designedthe topography by designing the blocks of foam. and then, this isputting the soil in. because we only had90 pounds, we actually

couldn't drivetrucks on the site, and so all the soil is augeredin with these big booms. and there's a guy down there. there's actuallythis trough thing and the guy is actuallyholding the trough. he's actually moving it aroundand depositing the soil. it's actually quite amazing. here we're partially done. you can see thefoam with the filter

fabric over it and the soil. and then, at thispoint, we're staking out the different regimesfor the different turfs. there are three different turfsas well as a synthetic turf for the targets. and this is what itlooks like, all kind of benign and beautifulwhen it's complete. and another view, youcan see the pixels here. that's our fuzzy edge.

it's grown in alittle bit more now, but you start to geta sense of the scale. this is the arrivalsand receiving building. this is where thesedum roof was. i am standing wherethe clubhouse will be built that starts this season. and this is the view ofwhat is currently completed. so this is the plant. this is the industrialpart of the plant,

the arrivals and receivingbuilding, that sedum roof. the next phase are the treatmentcells, which wrap around here. the clubhouse goeshere, and then the driving tee boxes go here. and this phase will startconstruction this year and last about two years. so it'll be 12 yearsbefore i'm finished. thank you. i'm going to start talkingbecause i have more

slides than ken andi need to talk fast. that's weird. anyway, ignore the center thing. when i graduated fromgsd, i stayed in cambridge for a couple years. i worked for formerdean jose luis sert, designing new citiesin saudi arabia. i think the great thing aboutbeing a landscape architect is that you can have manycareers within a career,

and i have also workedfor the national park service, the nationalforest service, doing recreationalmentors and land planning studies for the tennesseevalley authority. i have had a checkered pastand none of them really applied to what i do now,but they were kind of movements along the way. and i think, for me, thekind of epiphany came where, after i worked for10 years, and i

would have to say not avery distinguished career. i was getting reallybored and unhappy, and i felt like there had tobe something more to that. originally i wantedto go to art school, and my parents absolutelyforbid me to do that, and so landscapearchitecture became the field that i thought icould be an artist, and suddenly i realizedthat's not what i'm doing. and so i ended up workingin a design build firm,

and i became apartner in that firm, and we workedtogether for 10 years. and suddenly when i wasworking in design build, it brought me back to materials,touching things and feeling things and thinking more likean artist than a designer. and i still think ofmyself as a designer, but i think thatattachment to materials is really essential tothe work that i do now, and i think mywork really changed

once i started to thinkfrom the building blocks kind of to the biggerscale rather than designing these huge things and thentrying to figure out how they were going to be composed. this project is one andit's an old prune packing plant that wasrenovated to be an art center in the northernpart of sonoma county. the only requirementat the start was to raise the finishfloor of the building

up 4 feet because it'sin a giant valley that's a flood plain. so that became, then,this kind of landscape that was not a landscape thatyou would find naturally, but a constructed landscape. and so the idea was tocreate something that related to the architecture. i feel strongly that thearchitecture, the landscape, and the larger environmentneed to connect in some way.

and so that these plinths thatextended above the vineyard floor becamesomething that would connect the three together. but when you're inthis large-- and it's a very large-- flat valley,and you're raised up on a flat plinth, you startto think about the materials because how-- i often startthinking about a project by how it wants to feel. i don't approach it from a kindof intellectual standpoint,

but more how it wants tofeel, and that goes back to the essential qualitiesand the materials. and here, in this big planein a very sunny sight, gravel is something that isappropriate in the country, and it also is appropriatebecause it's a specular material, and then to combinethat with the native stone from that area starts to developa vocabulary that felt right. early on, the ideawas that we would create a-- i wanted tocreate a line as if a datum

around the whole edge thatseparated the art events that would happen at thetop of the plant-- the things that wererelated to the building-- with the messy work of farming. and i wanted to bring ittogether so that you would get a strong visceral reaction,like this wall is beautifully crafted. there's no mortar showing. it's just finely tuned,every little piece, and then

just throwing the same stone upagainst the edge in a very kind of rustic and rough way. so again, the attentionof that collision of the same material usedin very different ways creates a tension that,i think, makes one feel a little bit uncomfortable. i've had people-- takenthem there and say, why? and i think thattension is important. also, i think connectingto the architecture

and the materials of thearchitecture's important. the floor was araised aluminum floor. it's a little bit shiny. so the idea of theinside/outside boundary of this flat,reflecting pool that's at the level of thefloor starts to dissolve that boundary betweenlandscape and architecture. i think there'salso attention, too, when you're working on aflat, constructed plane.

it kind of goes back tovaux-le-vicomte and french gardens, but this ideaof carving to make space. so there's this tensionalso with this corten steel steps on the right and the flat,top plane of water on the left that they kind of playagainst one another. and what i love aboutthe corten steel, you can see here it disappears,and here it becomes a volume, or it describes anedge, and it's something that i like that changesfrom the perspective

that you look at it. it looks different indifferent perspectives. so here, you're in thespace, and you can feel contained within that space. and then here, you are lookingback at the space-- here is where that edgeis, but it disappears. so this edge ofthis box is sort of defined by a larger wall,lower wall, and then an implied edge of thesetwo corten steel steps.

when you work on aproject like this you have to think aboutdisabled access, so the one way that i wanted this plane to besomething that would connect everything together and that thematerials be very, very simple. and so the idea-- theseare gravel-paved rings that allows a wheelchairto move across it and just still give the appearance thatit's one material throughout. i mean, imagine thisas concrete or stone, and it has a wholedifferent feeling.

it's not feeling of the place. and then there's a detailof that meeting the building with a slot drainto take on any water so it doesn't gointo the building. crossing this almost likethis river of gravel-- crossing it is the idea to goto one of these other spaces where they would have eventsand set up a large table is a corten steelbridge, if you will. and so, when you're inthis mass of this kind

of natural material, theone thing that is crafted, besides the walls, isthis flooring material, and so the craft of thatbecomes very, very important, and very important thatit be detailed down to the finest detailof craftsmanship because that's what you're goingto notice in a space like this. and as you walk across it--you know, the sound of gravel has a crunch, and there'sthat kinesiological sense of moving throughspace where you

sense what you'rewalking on and that makes you feel verydifferent when you're walking on the gravel aswhen you're walking across a kind of hollow metal. and then, at night,it's lit from below so the whole thingis, as i said, hollow and it's lit from below. and again, for me,landscapes that change either through the seasonsor the time of day

is great, but alsohow lighting impacts it is a very importantpart of what i think about. this is kind of the otherend from the valley floor to the top of one of the highestbuildings in san francisco-- a penthouse. we were working withan interior design firm to redo-- well actually,do-- this terrace, which was kind ofa spec building, and they just had kind ofdone the vanilla treatment

of just put a bunchpedestal papers. so we were asked tocome and work on this, and the idea of taking themateriality of the inside and the patterns and moving themoutside in a very small space is all about making thingseffortless and seamless and connecting the two. so this was the patternthat we came up with. and the space needed tobe flexible at the center, that people could come out.

it needed a littlebit of green, i think, to feel like it wasa garden, but also we wanted it to feel as ifthe furniture we designed was extruded up fromthe floor so it felt as if these forms ofthe seat and the table actually extruded themselves upas one material in this deck. and then alsothinking about color. i mean, we always thinkabout color at the beginning because color impactshow you feel in a space,

and there's nothinglike-- people in my office look at things in theoffice all the time and under the ugly fluorescentlights, and i think, got to have it outside. when you go with things outside,they look very, very different in natural light. looking at that andthen also the [? add ?] surface of the pavings sothat it caught the light in an interesting way.

and then we also had, as kenhad on his project, a very difficult weight problem. so all of these pieces areheld up by multiple pedestals. they're big slabs,like 2 by 4 feet, and the stone is very thin. it actually wasshipped on a honeycomb so that it wouldn'tbreak before it was cut. and then, at night, you cansee the lights being installed. and then we worked onthe furniture in rhino.

and then that furnituredesign was then sent out to thefabricator, where they cut the mold in the cncmachine using our rhino model. there they are,making the molds. it was a double mold becauseit had to be lightweight. you can see there. and then you can see how the twomolds create this hollow space. we actually cut the bench-- wedesigned it be in two pieces because it had to be carried inthe elevator to get to the roof

because it was toohigh for a crane. or, if it would be, the cranewould be enormously expensive. so thinking aboutthat, actually the seem in the stone actuallycarries through the bench, and this is the finalproduct with these led lights cut into it. and also, by doing thison a pedestal system, all the water drainsbetween the seems so that this piece, actually,there's no drainage required.

drainage, for me,is always something that's integral to design,and it's not an afterthought. it needs to be thoughtof as a part of it. we even brought thestone-- the samples of this moss-like plant--from new zealand up here to make sure it would do well. since it was the onlyplant it had to do well. anyway, just every part of itvery, very tightly detailed. we do a lot of residential work.

about half our work ishigh-end residential work, and it's great because wehave clients with nice budgets who can do interesting things. and i think living in californiai get lot of clients who are willing to break the mold. this was an existing housethat was going to be renovated and the historic preservationpeople in the community really limited us justto what we could do. so we had to keepthis brick paving

and they couldn't changethe house very much, so any designmoves that came out would have to comeout in the landscape. so the idea was to createthis-- we had this grade change of probably 18 feetto get to the front door, and we wanted to make that areally interesting experience. and i wanted to make ita visceral experience. i wanted it to feel scary. i wanted it to feel thrilling.

i didn't want it tofeel like something you're just walking up. if you're walking up 18feet, that's a lot of feet, so this idea of thesecantilevers were important. and we used the corten steelbecause it matched the brick that we had to keep. and then you can see how farwe are perched over this cliff. it drops about a hundred feet. we couldn't touch theface of the cliff,

so the cantileverallowed us to do that. i love [? woodform ?] concrete. this idea of just like walkingpast it feels a little rough, so the material has expressesa kind of emotional quality that, in contrast or in concertwith the corten steel, which oozes and drains andgets kind of funny patina over the surface,is always great. here, the material seemsreally solid and heavy, as these plinths orthese cantilevers

extend over the cliff, and thenhere i am standing at the edge. you can see, at theedge, we've actually created grading so that theend of the overlook is glass. but when you see it mostthe time, the way the light hits it, it looks like youcould just walk off the edge and so there's this senseof thrill and danger. and then, when you look down,you see how far of a drop it is. and it has such avisceral reaction

that some peoplewon't walk out on it. it's too scary. so i love the factthat we have been able to elicit a strongemotion with the landscape. the same client for the firstproject-- the arts center-- has a sculpture ranchin sonoma county, and this is the artistsin residence studio, and it's made of twoconcrete walls that slice into a hill witha studio on either side.

so we were asked to create awalkway from the main house up to this artists inresidency studio, and i thought, well, how doyou make it movement like this with a strong form like that andnot have those two forms work in conflict with one another? and so the idea cameup using corten steel-- the same material asin the last project-- but using it in a very lightway and lightly grading the soil to create a little depression,set it in perpendicular

to the line of travel,parallel to the walls, and then use gravel, which isthe same color as the hillsides of california in the summertime,to create a seamless transition so that when youlook at the sideways, it virtually disappears. we've used corten steel onthis project, where there's an 11 foot grade change betweenthe street and the front door. and the idea was to createan ada-compliant path so a wheelchair canget to the front,

but we wanted tomake that experience a sculptural experience. this is a-- they do researchfor biofuels in this building, and so thinking aboutwhat happens inside that building becameimportant to express in the materialsof the landscape. so we extrapolated or abstractedthe biofuel materials, like biodiesel and ethanol andall those different materials, and overlaid it with apattern of moving grasses

and created thisseries of openings in the corten steel, whichare back-lit at night and then that lights yourpathway as you move at [? night ?] so wedon't have to have any additional lighting. so this becomes a sortof sculpted cutting-in. and then, finally,this project is one-- we were asked todo an entry to a science campus in downtownsan francisco, ucsf.

and the idea was--this building which we worked on is a cardiovascularresearch building. the entrance ishere and we brought across a grid of palm treesthat marked this entrance from the downtown to thecampus, but on this side was a temporary power plant whichwill be on-site for 15 years. so the idea was, theywanted us to screen a power plant in the short term. but just to do that withplants is not enough,

so there is an impliedarchitecture here that is this 20 foot tall bamboo. in front of thatthere's a scrim, and the scrim is like aghost of a building that will be there in the future. and that is made out of layeringsheets of corrugated aluminum panels that, again, havea different porosity. and for me, the otherinteresting part about building landscapesis the idea of layering,

and we have that ability. and here's one case where itkind of feels like a building but it's not. all right, i gotthe blank screen. that's good. thank you all, and thankanita for having us all here. it's so nice andit's a great honor to be includedwithin this group. and then that sort ofgeneration down the totem pole,

but you can see how much boththese characters in front of me have really influenced some ofour work and some of the way that we approach things. i was having a reallyinteresting conversation with my partnerthe other day about how we do approach materiality. and because both ofus came from the gsd, we are firmly rootedin the modernist way of approaching things.

and we started questioninglike, well, what does that mean? and in some wayswe, as modernists, when we're talkingabout landscape, almost set up a structurethat then gets filled, and sometimes it's different. and in some ways,you have to think about what fills it is alwayssort of in flux, and maybe that's really where themateriality comes in. and it might bethose elements that

fit within that structurethat's material, but it's more thanjust material. it's an emotive quality. it's about registeringwhat the place is and how it's read, but alsojust the poetics of a place. i think in some ways, whenyou're working as a modernist, you always-- that touchstoneof how the place is then transforming thatstructure and allowing it to read in an emotivequality is, in essence,

how we sort of approachsome of the projects. i'm going to show youjust two projects, so i'll be pretty good. the first one is theibm plaza in honolulu. we've been very fortunateto work very exotic places, so i might as well start withthe most exotic at the moment. this is the site as we saw it. and to start a project like thisand to understand materiality, as we've been talked about,you have to really understand

the language of the place. so if you go to hawaii, youdon't talk about north, south, east, west. you talk about the mauka,which is the mountains, to makai, which is the ocean. so you're always inthis relationship, and that's reallyimportant and unique to understand that,when you're on an island and when you're on theseunique, contained spaces,

that you have your own languagethat you register the landscape with. and they're particulareven right down to how the nativehawaiians actually-- because it was atribal condition, we had lots of differentchiefs until the very end, when [inaudible] kamehamehaactually killed the last one by throwing him off a cliff. how would you actually giveyour land back to your family?

and it was allbased on ahupua'a, which is the watershed. so this watershed that i'mindicating here in kaka'ako, just south of waikiki,is the watershed that the project sits in. the client itself is actuallyhoward hughes' corporation, and they're building 22 towers. and this project wastheir sales center. so where it's positionedwithin the ownership

and how it layered into howthe descendants understood the place helped usunderstand the layering that we had to work with. this is the landscapeof what the site was, which is a series of fishponds and coral beds. you can see the spotin orange, and that's the shoreline in 1817. so literally, oursite was underwater. so that started to inform usto think about the materiality

of what it is to be in hawaii. and we studied these diagramsto understand that, well, this is why you're comingto hawaii, right? you want to sit on the beach. and the way that youunderstand the landscape is really always lookingout over the water and those connections. but what you're reallynot understanding is the way that thathorizontal plane then

organizes how you'rereading the landscape. but it also talks about theway that sunlight, then, engage with water. but also the native,the descendant, stories really become keybecause, in essence, by listening totheir stories, we were able to startto define some of the materiality of theplace that makes it authentic in those [? mean ?].

so the coral pulp yousee on the other side there is theirmost sacred object, and it's a living thing. it's a living thingthat grows and dies and then becomes something else. and as it layersover over time you start to get the coral beds, theatolls, and you're making land. so you can start to understandif you live on the island, making land is pretty special.

and so how do youactually, then, take in those stories andthose processes that make land and formulate themwithin your project? so i do these quick things--they're sort of funny-- that illustrated how, overtime, those beds would then come up and make land. and then the ultimate engagementis really with the sky, so you have this sort ofrelationship between the sky, water, and landthat really starts

to organize with plantingmaterials, [inaudible] in places forpeople to have fun. so that's the lastcomponent is people. and so, through this,you start to understand why the descendants have theirown, unique sort of creation story. they believe, in this imagethat i'm showing here, there's sky fatherand earth mother. they came together,and they had a baby.

and that firstbaby is taro, which is that middle band,which is a plant. it's a food source. it was born stillborn,so their next baby was man, who they createdto take care of the taro. so there's theseintimate stories-- if you can see the taroand man-- together, there's this nurturing,symbiotic relationship that's a completely unique way ofunderstanding landscape that

is almost foreignto us westerners who think about objects to wherethey think about caretaking. and so, for us,part of this project was to listen tothese stories and then to-- to synthesize, basically,the community, the descendants, the native hawaiians, who'vebeen pretty much marginalized, and to be able to give thema voice and a place that's going be very importantfor the next development for this whole area.

so that was one ofthe stories that we learned that helped inform us. the other store that wasreally quite beautiful is the building itselfand vladimir ossipoff. i don't know how many of youknow this man, but you should. he is an amazing modernist[? architecture. ?] he was based in hawaii. absolutely stunning. this is one of hisunique buildings

is the ibm building thatwas done very quickly. all those grillagethat you can see, the almost directrepresentation of the coral and the patterningof the basket-weaving that the native hawaiians did. so this is alreadythere on the site. we're just tryingto bring the story. but talk about materiality. this is what i calldeath by asphalt.

and this beautiful modernistbuilding was basically surrounded by asphalt andcompletely inaccessible for ada and all thiskind of good things, but it was pretty awful. so we, then, startedto look at what are the other elementsthat really we can tie in besides thinkingabout the other way that people see hawaii--the descendant view-- you can start to look at themodernist architecture approach

to this-- this sort of backdrop,this grillage, this three dimensionalform-making-- that then could be utilized at differentkinds of scales and forms. and what's really interesting inwhat we learned about the site is the shapes of them. yes, they are graphic in nature,relating to natural objects, but they're also guardingagainst natural objects. the curvature of theform of the concrete is such that a pigeon will notland there and do his duty.

so it was a reallyvery well thought out in this modernist way. but for us, wewanted to understand this architect a bit more. so this is the pacificclub that he designed, where you start to understandhis relationship to how to landscape. he really did do thissort of horizontal plane-- so again, relating back to thathorizon line of the ocean--

but also this layering of space,where you read the landscape. it's very hard to determinewhat's inside, what's outside, and the sort of layeringthat happens with the datums then became sortof a cue on how we could start to approach tothink about our project-- this sort of hawaiianhorizon line. this is our horizon line,this asphalt parking lot, four lanes, of alamoana and then a park that's sitting betweenthat and the ocean.

so for us, it was like, howdo you make these connections work, utilizingthe same approaches the architect would take to it? by literally bringingthe water to the site. so in essence, visually-- ihad poor david stand out there and raise his hand in theair until we could exactly get the point where the top ofthis, whatever we're creating, connects directly, visually,and optically, to the ocean. so in essence, sidelining allthat four lanes of traffic

and all the parked carsto create this, which was this abstractionor a fountain that tells all the interestingstories of the place, but also then honors andrespects the architect, but materially becomes veryinteresting because what we were interested inis registering of light. the quality of light inan island environment changes on a dime. it can be raining one second andsunny and rainbows the next, so

how you get a landscapethat sort of reads that. this is the plan, as yousee, the modernist building. and what we did is weliterally took the patterning and abstracted thescale of it and then applied differentmaterials to it and then punctuated it with thislong, linear water feature that then organized thatconnection to the ocean-- that horizontal plane-- but alsocreated the folly that would tell the stories butalso screen or mask

the sound of the traffic sothat we could create a space that people could occupy. i always sort of laughabout this project. the one scope thatthey gave us was that you could drive tothe front door in a limo and drop off. so that's all wewere supposed to do. we took it a littlefarther, obviously, but that's the important thing.

and then we completelylooked at the entire palate as using native plants. this is the firstproject in honolulu that is using allnative hawaiian plants, or kanu species. so that would becomeanother thing, but this is really what wewere interested in-- this sort of quality of what materialcan actually capture the light and register what's going on.

so water and glassworked really prominent into the design, where wehad these elements that then created the sortof tableau of water that will connect to theocean, but have these moments. here are the scuppersthat would create the sound and thevisual connections to the planting below. so you can see how,at different points, the registering of the lightand the plant materials

adjacent then become areally important play of the materials. even here, we hit itright at the right light. and we're looking in thecamera and we're looking, this is just crazy. what are we on acid? but we were because,basically, what we were realizing was thatthe polarization of the glass of the building wasactually reflecting itself

in the water feature. so it really was anamazing turn of events. but here, this ispart of the story. really, it was importantfor the descendants because these aresort of these elements that you want todesign-- like, this looks like a very prettyfountain, obviously to anyone. [inaudible], that's sittingin the office-- or here in the audience, i shouldsay-- to a descendant looking

at this thing. they actuallyunderstand the story that we're actuallycommunicating. so what we have hereis the water feature itself is the water that'sconnecting with the water, but with a glass bottomit's allowing sky father to actually move throughthe water feature, project on earth mother, and on thegiant leaves of the taro plant. and so the patterning ofthe water and the movement,

the dynamism ofwhat's created, then, registers on everythingbelow, and allows man-- you-- to engage withthis in a way of like, wow, what is going on? where is this dynamiclandscape created? how is it happening? and what's it about? so it makes you think about it. and so in someways, we're trying

to tell that story ofhawaiian creationism, but also creating somethingin a poetic beauty and noise control. as you can see, they cascadedown into this really beautiful scupper. it defines theedge, you can see. there's the glass top. and then the patterningthat we [? stressed ?] in the ground plane using theturf for water absorption.

and then the nextinteresting thing that we were reallyinterested in was, again, how do youactually, through a material, register that samesort of light? so the stone that you seehere that's expressed in here is a volcanic stonethat's really inexpensive. because we had to payeverything for the water feature so there was nothingleft for everything else. so we had to balanceall that stuff out.

so we had a veryinexpensive done, but what we did was threedifferent treatments. one was a split-faced finish, aflame finish, and a hone finish so that you could really seethe way that the light could be captured in the honed finishand take an inexpensive stone and make it lookreally interesting. and here it is from above. the way that theseelements, then, all tied together andpulled the graphic

through, but in anecological way by the way that the grass then picks upthe runoff to the lawn boards, as we called them. but then taking the native stoneand how we reveal or expose the treatment can bereally important on how to read the plan graphic. as you see, the space isjust wide open [inaudible]. it's a funny storyabout the trees. we actually didn'twant any trees.

we're one of thelandscape architects that love not having trees. and so when we told theclient, you don't want trees, and the client said,we have to have trees. they have to happen to makea space really beautiful. i said, sure,we'll go find them. we ran all over the placeto find these special shower trees. they don't lookspecial right now,

but they were[inaudible] planted. everything in hawaiigoes very fast. the irony of the thingis that the space was-- once we created it--so loved by the public and so overused that, basically,the trees were getting in the way so thenthey removed the trees. so it's a very funnything, but i'll show you some of thethings [inaudible]. but the expression, again, ofthe-- what we also wanted to do

is that ossipoff's buildinghad this almost artificial moat that ran around it, so howyou bring that language back into the form. and then, as youcan see, there's an essence we weretrying to capture the building in that qualityof light, but in the voids so the building is alwaysinscribed in the surface. so there's a playbetween the reflections and the actualrunnels that happen

that the water spills off into. and then, at night, thoserunnels, those voids, become solids, so it getsa totally different kind of experience as youmove through the place. and then you can see even howthe light from the building starts to catch thoseedges of the pavement. or even here at duskyou can start to see how it's all working together. and then in itsentire form reading.

and then, even the light--we actually told them, look, leds are cheap. let's do some reallyinteresting thing with this beautiful grillage. now they've goneto town about it. of course, it wasunder the radar because i don't thinkthe city of honolulu would appreciate it too much. but this is thecraziness as it happened,

because this is what i love andwhy i'm a landscape architect. so you create thisbeautiful place. it's supposed to be adrop off for stupid limos, but we've createdthis courtyard. we've made connectionsto different communities. we've made placesthat are beautiful, and every time i comehere it's totally occupied by every single thing. like one time-- thetop, that's yoga--

happens in there everythursday at 5 o'clock. if you ever want to go to yoga,you can come to the square. friday night movies happen. i showed up once and it was anice skating rink on the thing. i'm like, ice skatingin the middle of hawaii? this is nuts. but it's super popular. and right now there'sthat art installation. a very famous japanese artistwas so moved by the space

that she abstracted thenative hawaiian slug and so it's right out theretaking over the space as well. so i wanted to tell youtwo different projects and how we use materialityand how it combines. that one, obviously,there was a budget. this is land'send lookout, which is at the very endof the west coast. it's a very powerful site. you go to this site.

it's the trail headfor many trails. it goes through thegolden gate bridge. it's the locationof the cliff house. the sutro baths isthat pond that i think every architect has donea design for on how to do it. so we created this visitorcenter that sits right here. and our approach to this--it was a great challenge because the site is sopowerful that you are literally on the edge.

you can get blownoff this cliff, and it's happenedbefore, especially after you have a fewdrinks at the cliff house. and so it's reallya powerful site. so how do you engage that? how do you make that sitehospitable for people and then start to, in essence,engage what it originally was, which is a seriesof dunes that we're up above this land form?

so all those trees thatyou see there were all planted by the presidio,so it's not a natural look that's going on there. this is what itused to look like. this is the cliff house in thebottom and the sutro baths. our site is just up here. so there's all the oystershacks and everything else that happened here. so we started theproject, and, again,

this is obviouslywhy architects love doing this competition[? through ?] the spaces that were there. for us, it was adifferent way of thinking. in essence, when you ariseat the top of the site here is where your first unimpededview of the entire bay at the edge of the west occurs. and for us, we reallyworked with the architect. in some ways i think theyloved us and hated us

at the same time, but wereally engaged the architecture that was going togo here in a way that-- because thecommunity was so up in arms. how could you put a buildingin front of this view? and so by working with thetopography-- i call it the slow reveal-- as you movedown from the road all the way, allof the sudden you start to see the dunescape andthen the architecture slowly rising up.

and then i got thearchitects to think about the buildingsas a series of frames so that you could see through. and so this does thisreally elegant way of creating this protectedbehind the scenes and framing viewsat the same time. and then i always love thisproject because about halfway through-- actually, morethan halfway through-- we were told the budgetthat we had that was

this big was actually this big. and so it was a heartache. it was unbelievable. so we had to come up with a way,or a means, through materials to actually make thishappen and to think about the materials in whatis appropriate on the site. what can we reuse from the site? what can we make from the sitethat is robust and interesting and engaging thatwill allow people

to learn somethingbut then start your journey to otherplaces at the same time? and so what we did was-- here'sthe plan of the building. as you can see, weallowed the glazing so you see throughthese fins, and then the dunescape that sitsbehind here, and then a protected[? courtyard ?] on this because the windis just blasting like crazy on the side.

so for us, it was likethinking about being in this kind of an environmentthat's completely windswept. how do you create somethingthat is protected? and this is earlyon, and what we did was, becausewe had zero money, we had to do everythingby hook or by crook. so what does that mean? so we called inevery favor alive. and you had to be particularbecause it's the park service.

so we had be really on itbecause, basically, someone would slap you on the wristif you did something wrong. and so what we did was weworked with collecting-- from this watershed yousee down below there, we collected seedstock from here. we had volunteersfrom the park service go out, collect seed stock. it was then grown in aspecial nursery all covered-- paid for-- by the presidio.

so we got the plants fromthere, so that was one tick. the next tick thatwe had was then that you needed to createthe dunes that, then, you could reestablish. now, the dunes werereally important because you had toactually figure out the particular granulate thatwould allow this certain plant stock to grow and thenalso hold its form. and it had to be froman x number radius out.

so literally, i called poorallen in my office the sandman because all over, constructionsites were going on, we would literally runto a construction site, test the granularityof the sand, and then plead with theguy, can we take your sand? and so we finallydid find a source so that we could do this. so again, taking simple elementsand understanding the way wind shapes and formsdunes by the series

of layers of wind screenthat we integrated in so that would createthe microclimates to grow the plant. so you start to see them rawand then how they're starting to grow into the space. but this is what we were doing. this is a construction site. this is [? nimpha ?]. actually, [? andi's ?]former boss did the project--

her design build firm. and we stole the sand. so we hauled itback out for free. this is the plant stock thathad grown on in the nurseries. it was all categorized on whereit came, what it was from, when it was collected. and this is the end result.so this is about two years on. you can start to see how thewind screens and the dunes have sort of helpedfigure that out.

the other component wehad was the playfulness of the sutro bath story. sutro was an eclectic character. he collected sculpturesand wild animals and all this kind of stuff. and we found them all lockedup in this crazy bunker in the presidio. so we actually lookedat reutilizing them, marking the frontentrances of the site

and the interesting thingwas that all those blue flags that you see out there waspart of the testing thing that we did. it was actually,as we went along with the process-- theirrigation flags are there not only to indicate wherethe plants would go, but also as aregister of the wind so that you could actuallyfigure out if we did it right. because you could see as soonas the wind would hit this,

the flag's would beflattering like crazy. so every time you seethe ones on the edges, but when you start looking inthe middle, they're all limp. so it actually is a reallyinteresting test for us to see if we actuallygot it right. here's the stag andthe oyster shell. the oyster shell weactually got because, as we dug into this place, the oystershacks that used to be here, they'd shuck the oystersand throw it out the back,

so that became ourmulch for the project. and then these trees--so these tree which, again, were all planted stock. that became our sourcefor all our wood benches. so all the wood they actuallycame from the wood bench. they're hewned large piecesthat are 16 inches wide. and then we completeconfigured them in a really robust,simple way that met ada and all thosekinds of good things.

the wood itself--the wind screens, then-- you can see thedirect relationship from where they came from. so you start totell those stories. and then these sortof framing elements that we created-- that'sroderick actually sitting there-- on that edge. and then thiscourtyard that tells all the stories in the dunesand is a protected space where

you can have a cup ofcoffee and relax before you do the hikes out to the bridge. and i have thesetwo little sections are for my fellowlecture or [? user ?] or whatever youwant to call them. so this garden-- so i'vebeen huge fan andrea cochran for a very long time, andone of the first gardens that we got to do at our firm,which is coming on 10 years, but this is sort of almost dayone, was we got this client.

san francisco is crazy steep. so we have little backyards--this is how you start, right? so we created this backyardthat talked about the way the certain ramps would workin this area of san francisco to move back andforth, so we literally, again, with little budget, wejust used straight corten steel and created thesevolumes or voids that we could thenplant but then became the retaining elementsthat you traverse

as you move throughthe garden so that you get this wonderfulexperience of the corten resting in the volumes thatare creating that was very meaningful and touching tounderstand the kind of poetry that andi was making with thismaterial really did inspire us and our client to reallythink about what it was. and for us it wasa great learning curve because literallythese giant pieces of 20 foot long steel came in-- likehow do they get craned in?

how do they get made? how do you fabricatecorten steel? we were all being precious onhow the corners all made up, and what i learnedwas you just fucking booger it up and youjust like carve it. you round it. you shape it. you can make these volumeshappen really crudely and then the whole thing rustsand it all disappears

and it looks perfect. so this was one of ourearly, early, early projects that really we felt we werechanneling our inner andi to make this happen. and this one is for you, ken. besides being sexyand fashion, we too appreciate your approach. and women and beautyand then landscape that might be a runwaywas really important

because, what is also lost onus and on this next image i will show you-- this is thedesigner dries van noten, that was his last collection--this is his garden. and so to understand thatpoetry of the framework, of that touch, feel,that collection, and how the landscapeof his garden is-- you can see how it's informing howhe's dealing with his fashion. so in some ways there's areverse psychology going. dries is probablylooking at ken's gardens

and designing clothingfor it, but here he's done this beautiful garden. because i thinkthat's another thing that we, aslandscape architects, are very afraid ofthe word garden. and our firm is actuallychallenging that and think that gardens shouldbe on equal par as what we do. and so this garden is quiteinteresting in the fact that it's a ombre of the roses.

so literally it's going froma white to a pink ombre as you walk into this garden,very much like a fashion designer what you'dexpect out of it. and another part of his garden. this is eric dhont, whois a landscape architect at dries' garden aswell, really starts to talk about the spatial. this is sort of theslight difference between the subtlyof garden-making

and then the containmentof garden-making. so you have theselarge hedges here that's like walkingin a giant iceberg because it's all theseshapes are moving through and you really get theexperiential of moving through this sort of carefullysculpted kind of garden, but the rich palateof the plant material then becomes the focus as you'resort of looking in and down. so i left these twojust to comment on

for my two compatriotsto think about the notion that it's a bigger field. when you're talkingabout materials, it's also plant materials. it's about hardmaterials, and it's also about poetic materials, but it'salso about people materials. i know it's the wrongword, and i'm not the finessed oratoras most people, but what we do tryand do with our work

is to try and listen-- listento the stories of the place, the people, and what thematerials are, and try to wrap those alltogether to have different means for differentpeople in different forms, and to do it ina high-craft form in a modernist sensibility. so that's sort of the waywe sort of approach things. and each project, forus, is totally different because all those factorschange every time that we go.

so anyway, i'll leave thatthere and allow matt to turn the lights on and me off. nobody knows how to prune. thank you, ken, andi, james. this was fantastic. i'm very interested in thesimilarities and differences in your presentations. i'm fascinated byyou all, in a way, started with a big narrativeof the project and the client

and, in some ways,materials are a way to transcend either thebanality of the request-- the fire, the fire truck, orhow to make an interesting wall when it's impossible,or how to stop sound-- and to resist that in orderto open that up and make it about something else. and at what point of,say, the brief or the work or the project doesthat kind of insistence on difference, on theuniqueness, on let's

resist the client, or thebrief, or the way something is presented-- at whatpoint does that come in and how is that a driver? sometimes i think thatit starts, with me, from the materials. i was recentlyasked to collaborate with a project with tom leader. and tom leader does alot of competitions, and competitions requirevery interesting narrative

to kind of tie youinto the design and let other people who don'tknow about the project connect to the design. and so tom and i were workingtogether on this project, and the first question iasked was, how the buildings want to sit on the site. what do they want to feel like? what does the spacewant to feel like? and then once i knew whatit was going to feel like,

then i couldunderstand-- so i had to think about thematerials, and then i could think about the spaces. where tom approachedit is-- this was a leed, going to benet zero building-- as, how do we tell thestory of water? they're both really interestingways to approach it, and both really appropriate. but mine was to kind ofcome from the bottom up

and to think about what ithought the materials would be that would formthe space that would make thecharacter of space and how people would feel in it. so for me, it's a veryintuitive, emotional kind of response to, but it's alsoabout placemaking and shaping, but the first is, i needto know what it feels like and then i can build from there. it's a reallyinteresting question

because i think thatwe're all in this room to challenge ourselves andwhat our built environment is. i think, because the scale andthe different types of work that we are ableto function in-- like we're doing giantairports and weird things like that-- my continualbattle as a landscape architect is like fightingfor trees, fighting for non-trafficengineered environments. i think our biggest problemwith our world today

is the homogenization. our roads are exactly the same. i can be in aukland oroakland and i would not know the difference. and so for me, it's abattle to challenge, to question every curb, toquestion every material, to question why you need so muchroom to make a turning lane. why does our signage alwayshave to look the same? and so, in some ways,i'm always battling

because you will havebox checkers when you're in the realworld that won't allow you to do anything else. you have to have that firelane, but what did ken do? he messed with them, right? he blurred the line. it doesn't looklike a fire lane. and that's thekind of challenge, i think, that we all, inthis room, need to do.

we need to push backon the norm and be able to have that sortof knowledge and passion to move forward because,if you don't have that, it's so easy to use thewhite concrete everywhere, to use your 6 inch curbeverywhere, and to, in essence, make a samenessto the place, which i think is what-- we'renot in this school. we're not in this planetfor sameness, i believe, and so that's where the passioncomes from for me, at least,

on these bigger scale. but in a more intimate scale,i'm just like you, andi. there's an intuitivequality that i think you have to be able toexpress and to make people curious, almost striketheir sense of wonderment, like, why is this? why are we doing this? like, we're doing todrop-off for a limo? no, we're not.

we're going to create thefirst public space that people can utilize and take overand own rather than something that's about the car. and so it's sortof that-- i know, i sound like i'mpontificating, but i am really passionate about that. and i think you have tomaintain that sort of passion and pushiness to actuallyaccomplish things because you alwayswant to be-- and i

know most of thepeople in the audience here know-- you have to push forthe 110% because you're always going to get pushed back to80%, and so it's that balance. and it's actuallygood when you get pushed back because thenyou have to really refine what is the essence ofwhat you're proposing? what's the essence of thedesigns going forward? and then it gets richer. so it's an interestingprocess, i think,

but it is being that sortof forceful, passionate sort of craziness, ithink is important. i think there'ssomething that happens at the beginning of theproject when you say, yes, i'm going to do this project. there's a moment when you sizeup the project and the client and say, i wantto do this project and i think i can do this here. there's some-- it's notmaybe a specific design--

but there's some reasonyou want to do it, why you want to takeit on, and, for me, having an idea ofwhat that is that i think i can do here that i tryto drive-through the project. i'm just stubborn enoughthat i keep that in my head and fight with myself andi fight with the client, and sometimes i get fired. but, generally, you needthat at the beginning, otherwise you're justproviding a service

and i don't think that's enough. i had another question aboutthe medium of landscape versus architecture, say. i've always felt, well,architects, in a way, have it very easybecause it is always possible to tell wherethe representation happens in architecture. it is clearly notnature, not natural, and it's also veryclearly how one

can begin to develop the poeticsof, say, fighting the forces at work, such as gravity, mass. the dematerializationof architecture is so extraordinarily poetic. and what strikesme about your work is that it touches on that. it uses materials oflandscape in a way that speak about thematerials-- that speak above and beyond thematerials themselves.

they don't stopin the materials. but then you eithermake them transparent or represent them first as voidand then as mass, or thinness and then mass. you begin to dematerializethem through light. i mean, that's somethingextremely intentional that you did using very heavymaterials in the ibm plaza, and then working, of course,with noise attenuation also in very precise and in waysthat is not about that,

but completely transcends that. same thing with your work, ken. usually the material isplaced there but made to perform in-- i'mnot using here the term in its ecological way,but in its visual way and its experientialway-- in ways that, in fact, work aboveand beyond what the thing is. and typically, inlandscape, it falls into a kind of more literalunderstanding of performance.

is a draining? is it breathing? is it doing? is it whatever-- thatbiological thing, rather than sensorial,abstract, changing appearance of the material. this is the point where isay, it makes you think. it's not just aboutwhat is it doing, but how do you take itbeyond itself to do something

else perhaps unexpected. perhaps you doknow what it does. and so how doesprevious knowledge accrue in your projects? how do you begin to-- howdo you sustain that energy to assist the kind ofstraightforwardness of landscape materialsto transform them into something else? how do you sustain that?

how do you accruethat knowledge? how do you add onto it? how do you keep itgoing, especially when you start getting large firms? you start managing moreand more complexity, more and more projects theyrequire very different scales of work and of engagement. you have to be a little bitdelusional because you're really pushinguphill every time,

and you don't alwayswin the battles. somehow you haveto keep coming back and say, well, i thinki can do it this time. it does take a little bit ofsuspended belief [inaudible]. we were talking earlier. before we camedown here, we were talking about having a house. there are corporate firmsthat provide service and have focus groups and style thingsand are very good at that.

they make more moneythan we do, probably. and then there arecoutures-- people who have their own house,and they have their own house so that they can controltheir means of production and their expression. and we are all inthat latter group. and it's harder andharder, i think, in contemporary societyto have your own house. in the fashion world, thereare very few fashion designers

that have their ownhouses any longer. mostly they are designers forhire working for corporations. alber elbaz was recentlypushed out at lanvin. he was a great designer. he rebuilt thathouse from nothing, but the market says somethingotherwise now, so he's gone. they'll bring in somebody else. and he's not incontrol of his fate. and so it's importantto have your own house,

and it's important to developyour own means and methods and materials andprocesses and approach. that's what definesthe work, i think. i think, too, forus, it's really a critical part of thefoundation of our firm is that we do somesmaller projects and residential projects,and we do larger projects, and the smaller projects are akind of testing ground, where you have people with money oryou have better contractors.

you can try thingsout, and then you can take risks onlarger projects because you've done it before. i mean, i've actually worked onprojects where we had a glass wall that was 8 feet tall andwe wanted to use it for a museum at 10 feet tall,and they're like, oh no, no, you can't do it. and then you show themwhere it's been done, then they will do it.

so you kind of become yourown r and d and your clients help support that. and those people aremore risk tolerant than a public agency would be. so i think what itdoes is two things. in the culture of thefirm, people in the firm begin to learn things and haveconfidence in building things, and then there arepeople who've actually experience withcertain materials,

and then you have theconfidence of the clients because they see the built work. it is true that clientspick us because they want something different, as well. we're not just accepting jobs. they're coming to us. that's right. but i do agree with andi. i think you nailedit on the head.

it is really this ability to dothese smaller, more jewel-like projects and figure out almostin a prototype kind of form. and once you physically havesomething you can point to, then people will jump on. i mean, it's been interesting. we've been doing a lot ofwork in new zealand for almost the entire length ofour firm, and it's funny when you sit-- and we'vebeen pushing storm water treatment withinroadways and stuff way

before the stuff hasbeen sort of the genre. today you see san franciscotrying to integrate it in their own citythings, and we've been able to do it reallyearly on in new zealand because they're muchmore open to it. and we will push them. half the time you don't knowwhat the hell you're doing, but you're goingto figure it out, and you're going towork with the engineers.

and this is the onething i like to take away when-- i know i gave my littlerattling off about engineers and roadways and allthat kind of stuff, but they're tired ofchecking those boxes, too. and i think it's till you firmlyengage with your counterparts, because no project isdone by one person. it's a whole team. it's an army, especiallythe largest projects. if you can capture them, it'slike capturing their creativity

or whether-- because they'retired of being in the same box, doing the same thing. if you push them-- youpush them a different wau-- than they'll start thinking andthey'll start collaborating, and then you'll start building. and once it's built--i swear, i have done so many different crazythings across poor auckland that basically they startreferring to the projects that we did, but notknowing that we did them,

and it's very fascinatingbecause you can-- i'm telling you right now--you can change and make a difference. you can make a difference byshowing and building a project that a curb doesn'thave to look like that. a curb can be super sexy andblack oxide and not dumb. and you know what that does? and you're doing 100kilometers of that same curb? it looks really sexy.

it's unbelievable thatlittle, dumb elements that we see every day, just bysubtly shifting them and really fighting for them, can actuallychange the environment that we live, that you appreciate. like, people willwant to live there. they will want toengage with it. and that's sort of theother part and parcel, that you just have to havethe fortitude to do it, to push people increative ways, i think.

i think when i think aboutour work and what we do, i feel like there's plentyof really talented people. when i speak andgo to universities, i'm really humbled by thetalent i see in the students. i think the thing wedo is we don't give up. it's just you-- you'renot going to give in. and so i think if youhave that attitude, you can make thingshappen because there's plenty of talentedpeople out there,

but if they don'thave the fortitude to fight and keepfighting and keep fighting when you don'twant to fight anymore, it doesn't happen. so i think that's part of it. like, i'm therepushing the whole way and if the clienthas this expectation, we have this expectation,and sometimes you get a clientthat's got expectation

up here, which is great,but most of the time you're pushing the bar upwards. and you have to constantly bepushing to do that, otherwise i see the same crap everywhere. you do have toknow your material. you do. i took a swipe at the paintingcontractor [inaudible], which was probably unfairbecause the truth is i've learned most of whati know about construction

from talking to thecontractors on site, because when i started buildingstuff i didn't know shit. and i would be on siteand i'd say, well, why are we doing this? or [inaudible] how canwe do this differently? and i spent a lot of time askingquestions of the contractors i was working with, andi learned a great deal from the contractorsbecause they actually really know the material andhow the material behaves.

and if you're goingto be doing something expressive withmaterial, you have to understand the material. and the contractors reallyare partners with us, and without goodcontractors you're not going to have good work. we did the project at berkeleyfor the bioenergy research building with all thelittle holes in it. the guy who did thejob and he actually

got a subcontractor to bidit, and the price was so high. he said, that's crazy. i'll just buy the equipmentand i'll burn all the holes. after he got, like, onepanel done, he was like, uh oh, i understandwhat this was. i can't burn all these hole--i'm burning the machine out. it's going to takeme like six months and i'm still notgoing to be done. so we kind of met on-site.

we looked at it and we cameup with a different way of water-jetting it, andit wasn't quite the same, but it's like, i didn'treally know the difference between those two ways. he'd specced it out one wayand we kind of did a mock-up and looked at it, butthat back-and-forth with the contractors is where,i think, you really do learn. a lot of thecontracting process, especially on publicwork, works against that

because you aren't allowedto have that dialogue. you're governed bymeans and methods, where the designer'snot in charge of the means and methods. the contractor is becausethe contractual obligation's [? illegal. ?] you'regenerally precluded from having discussion, which is unfortunatebecause a lot of times stupid stuff happensbecause of that. it's just how it is.

we'll open it up toquestions from the audience. hi, thank you somuch for coming. it was wonderfulparticularly to see the translationof something that first is the plan that youtake for granted as part of our grammar and ourdiscipline seen and translated in real space-- as areal space-- with all these properties, but i want togo back to the idea of beauty. and all of youspoke about beauty.

and probably here, beautyand aesthetics, we all take beauty and aesthetics ona certain type of direction, but you really don't talkwhat does beauty mean? or aesthetic? what does it mean? are we talking aboutjudgment and value? what is this? and i would liketo hear from you. what is your take on beauty?

what is that? that's a loaded one. beauty is really subjective. but i actually thinkit's integrity. it's actually thatthere's an idea that informs in a way that worksall the way through it, and that kind of purism. i think beauty haspurity to it, perhaps. that's a sloppy answer.

i don't think i usedthe word beauty. i hope i didn't becausei usually don't, but-- but beauty's a good thing. i think he's a goodthing, but i think when i think about howi react to a place is if it's an emotional reaction. like, when i see art, i don'tthink about all the precedents that i saw. i react to that piece.

and so i think whenyou're in a space or you are in a landscape,or wherever you are, it's sort of thatvisceral gut punch level. so i think it's moreabout moving emotions in a positive way that i thinkof as beauty or a reaction to beauty. i guess i think of thereaction more than the thing. i'm glad i'm going last becausei actually totally agree with you, andi.

and that's not a softball,but it sort of is. but it is a very hardthing to talk about. i think people are afraid ofthe term, or poetry, or beauty. it just gets me. i think it's in away that whatever you're looking or engagingwith emotionally moves you. i mean, that's reallythe essence of it. there can be beautyin ugliness, too, but it is that sort of--it's just not the same.

it's something that canengage someone in a beauty. beauty engages one,whether you want to call it that termare not, i don't know, but it's that engagement,that connectedness to something that is different. that's what i think beauty is. so integrity,connectedness, viscerality? that's a pretty good start. i have something that'seasier than sylvia's question.

i was sitting here,trying to imagining what you could do, anita,to thread these very different discussionstogether, and i'll offer a possibility,which is the relationship between calculated riskand embodied knowledge. and then, on the otherside of it, is persistence. so i think you all, maybe i cansay, embody this set of things. making a mock-up ofthe wall with coursing that starts uphere and goes down

there is risk--huge risk, actually. and so i'm happy thatthe students could see that you wouldtake the risk, but it's a calculatedrisk because-- i knew it would work. --you knew it wouldwork, but you also knew that you couldprove it would work before you completed it. that there was a placewhere someone could say,

ken, forget it. or you would say, god,we just didn't get it. and so the mock-up--you build in the mock-up and then you build in the reviewtime, and then you proceed. when i was firstdrawn to andi's work, what really struck me wasthe use of repetitive form. in the very early workthat was published, when you started the firm,after the design build effort, and that, too, tome is embodied knowledge.

i like to see peoplerepeat themselves because i think itshows confidence, but it also suggestsexploration because it's never the same twice. never the samewater in the stream. and so to me, that kind ofpersistent search in geometry is on the ground is what i firstsaw, and your work has evolved into a far greater setof issues than that, but that was really something.

and then i would just wantto comment on the passion. i mean, i think i've knownyou since you were a teenager, but it's fantastic to seethat the embodied knowledge of several different kindsof practice that you've been involved in reallynever gets satisfied in you. everyone in the room can feelthe pulse and the intensity behind your desire, andso that, too, i think, is an embodiedknowledge, but it seems you're not held back by it.

you're actually driven by it. it's a thrust for you. so i didn't havea hard question. i really wanted to make acomment and an appreciation. so it occurs to me when you guysare talking about materials, you're talking about the costof something-- the source of it, the qualities ofit, the dimensions-- and it occurs to methat, in that way, material is like an interfacebetween the engineering

of something and thenthe design or something, with all the implicationsof both of those terms. so i'm wondering ifyou guys could maybe elaborate on that a little bit. yeah, i understandyour question. i mean, the selectionof the material then sort of helpsinform the structure or the creation of the pieceis what you're saying, right? yeah.

i think, yeah. i mean, that-- it does. i mean, really, therestrictions and the way-- how far you can bend metal? how far out do you wantto create something to allow the water to flow over. the properties of materialsand how they're going to age and patina over timeare all part-- i mean, that's something thati think all three of us

are thinking when we're usingthose materials all the time. and it's integral-- and i thinkgary's put it very eloquently. it's this body ofknowledge that you have accrued for the 22years we've been doing this, and it is that sort of, likeken said, trial and error and understanding, like andi,and understanding the materials that you're workingwith that they can then inform those directions. so it is a matterof trial and error,

but understanding thematerials is actually critical to how you're makingthings, how they're performing and what they'regoing to do long-term or if you want them to fail. i mean, we've done stuff wherewe want it to erode to nothing. it's about picking theright materials it's about knowing the materialwell enough that you know how it will behave, youthink, and picking correctly. i remember seeingguenter voigt did

these eroded concrete wallsat the novartis campus in switzerland. it was just unbelievable. beautiful. talk about bad craft. i mean, it wasintentionally bad craft, and they were just themost gorgeous thing. i remember seeing themblown away, like i had never thought of that.

it never occurred to me. they were just unbelievable. but he was a masterof that craft. he knew how to do that, andit was according to his will. yeah, i think you just trystuff over and over again. when i started working-- i'mlike the oldest successful person. you know, i worked fora really long time, did a lot of really crappythings for a long, long time

before i kind of started tohit my mark in my late 30s, early 40s, and ithink what it was was i needed to understandmaterials to be able to work. it's like if you're apainter and you're always looking at thepaintbrush and you never pick it up and use it, you'renot going to know how to paint. or if you don't pickup a pencil and draw you're not going toknow how to draw. so for me, once istarted building things

and understandingthe materials, then i felt like i'dmastered the craft, or began to master the craft,of making things because for me, the way i do thingsis it didn't come about coming up withgreat ideas and kind of doing beautiful drawings. it came about out of makingthings and so the making made better makingand better making, so it kind of built on itself.

but i feel like i needed to kindof have the toolbox out, where i had the saws and thehammers-- not physically, but metaphorically--that i could actually make better things. and the more thingsi made the better the things were the next time. so you build on that. do you block build models? not anymore.

do you [? milk ?] [inaudible]? yes. we don't build modelsmuch anymore either, but model making wasa good way, early on, for me to understand howi was making something-- how things hookedtogether and what goes on top orunder something else or what the connections were. we don't build models anymore.

we should. just to give you a littlebit of push back on that, because the way you'retalking about it now, to build better you're sayingmake better things-- build better-- or use a model tounderstand how to make things, but neither of your workis about building better. i mean, it is ata certain level, but it's so much more than that. i think it's tounderstand [inaudible].

the level of-- yes, but thecraft exceeds, in a way, itself in all of your work. when you talk about vertigo,when you talk about a gut sensation withmaterials, you're not talking about building better. you're talking about-- no, it's about art. we're not-- you're not talking about that.

[? --crass people. ?] yeah, right. absolutely. and so there's away that you are thinking through the material,evaluating what you're doing, editing in many ways. it is embodied knowledge,but it's never repeated. it is transformed. it is dynamic.

it sort of evolves. i think, though, forme the freedom comes-- and it is well-built, but itdoesn't stop there at all. but it gives you freedom. once you know how tobuild it, then you don't have to worryabout that anymore. then you can startto think about-- playing with limits. --other things, soyou're not limited by,

is it just going to standup or how do i make it work? once you feel like you'vemastered that craft, then the other stuffcan layer on top of it. i think, for me, that's whatit took to have that confidence to then kind of take therisks and do the other things. i think we havetime for one more. it's getting quite late. thanks very much, anita, forbringing the panel together. i was super interestedin this idea of how

time in a number of differentkind of perspectives influences both your thinking,let's say preemptively in terms of design work,or also at the same time, let's say post-occupancy. how projects weather, orhow they fail or kind of fall apart. how that informs yourwork intellectually, aesthetically, materially,even functionally, because there'sthe component also

about constructionin terms of the devil is in the details of assemblyvery often, and i'm wondering, how does either going back toprojects, significant failures, or unexpectedtransformations or uses-- how much do you document that? how does that inform yourwork in kind of explicit ways? i've made a lot of failures. my goal in life is to makesure my employees don't repeat my failures.

we try and shareinformation in the office, but i think going back issometimes painful and sometimes really rewarding. and the painful onesyou learn a lot to not do something the next time. i don't think you get betterunless you make mistakes. fortunately, i think becauseof this set of hybrid practice we have with a lotof residential work, we can try some ofthis stuff where people

can go back and fixit or make it better, and i've learned inthat kind of safe way, then when i-- if i'mgoing to use a thousand of one plant on a big project,i better have used 20 of it on another project and makesure it did pretty well. so on a planting it'sreally helpful, especially on a smaller project. you have bettergardeners, you know, high-end projects, butwe've all made mistakes

and it does feed you. in our office, we're trying tomake it a better culture so we don't keep repeatingthe mistakes, and so if we made amistake on one project, everybody knows about it. and as we've gotten bigger,keeping that culture gets harder and harder to makesure it permeates down to everybody in the office. so right now it's kind of meas kind of the cultural memory

of the office. it's rare, i think, to havea project that i go back and look at that i don't say,i might do this differently next time, or iwould change that. they're neverperfect, and there are things that you would change. i have some clients that bringme back, which is very nice. i have a client i dida project 25 years ago, and they won't cuta branch off a tree

without having me come outand that's really nice. and then i have clientswho come in the next day and start screwing the thingup and that's really sad. but there's not much you can do. all right. i just realized it'svery, very late. thank you for staying. i really appreciateit, and thank-- thank you all.

thanks, anita.

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