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Title : standard furniture online application
standard furniture online application
samantha: hi everyone, and welcome to ncarblive! i'm samantha miller, and i have three very special guests today. we have robertholzbach of hickok cole architects, tyler ashworth of voa, and ncarb's outreach managerkimberly tuttle. today we'll be sharing tips about a profession in architecture. specifically,how to prepare for an interview, how to negotiate your salary, and how to make the most of yourinternship. at the end we'll have time to answer your questions. so if you have any,feel free to submit them during the webinar using the q&a tool on your screen.so to kick things off, could each of you tell us a bit about yourselves and what you doevery day? rob? rob: my name's rob holzbach. i'm with hickokcole architects. i've been practicing for
about 20 years now and my primary responsibility�asidefrom project work, which i have a full load of�is to do all the hiring and staffingmanagement for my firm, which i've been doing for eight years now. i work on commercialoffice buildings, multifamily residential projects, and i've done commercial interiorsin the past. the point in saying that, the fact that i'm doing both hiring and projects,is that i'm really busy. and a lot of the other people that you're going to be interviewingwith and sending resumes to are equally as busy, and that's going to play into a lotof what we talk about later on. samantha: okay, thanks. tyler?tyler: my name's tyler ashworth. (i�m) currently working as an architect in dc, just recentlylicensed. (i) have about five years experience
now with voa associates, which is a design-basedinternational firm with nine offices total. we specialize in workplace interiors, healthcare,and proton therapy, as well as commercial repositioning. i also have quite a bit ofa volunteer background, which i think is what really brings me here today. (i) previouslyserved as the aias national president, which is what brought me to dc in the first place,and have been pretty well involved with all the other collateral organizations.samantha: thanks. kim? kimberly: my name's kimberly tuttle. i haveabout eight to 10 years of experience in high-end residential, mostly in maine where i actuallyjoined the aia board of directors for a couple of years. [they] introduced me to the idpcoordinators role, which you guys know now
as the architect licensing advisors. whichactually led to my position here at ncarb as the outreach manager. i travel around thecountry talking to students to educate them on the path to licensure, but also hopingthat maybe my experiences will help them out when talking with them.samantha: thanks, and thank you all for joining us today. i thought we'd start at the beginning.what are some good places to look for architecture internships and jobs? tyler?tyler: yeah, the first place i always go, my go-to tool, is the aia career center, thenational career center, i should say. aias also has their own career center online. thenthe other tool i use is just my own personal network, so putting out my feelers to colleaguesi know or people that i've served with on
different organizations to see if they havefriends or colleagues that are looking to hire.kimberly: yeah, the aia website tends to be really good for job openings. i got on themailing list, so even though i wasn't looking for a job, i was using it to help others.if i knew of someone who's looking, i would send something their way or just keep up withwhat's going on. really, networking. i got my first job due to an alumni and that samealumni brought me into my second job, which then led me into the aia which then led meinto meeting ncarb and networking and finally here. networking is really going to be yourstrongest resource in this profession because it's a small profession. we all talk, we allget to know each other, and i think rob will
cover that a little later, too.rob: actually i can cover it right now, in fact. the first thing that we do when we'relooking to hire is (ask) how do we find good people? we ask people we know already forreferences. i'll send an email to my office saying, "hey, do you know anybody you'd liketo work with?" some people that are not happy where they are, let's see if we can get themin here for an interview. that's the first thing we do.next thing we do is we advertise on websites, in the aia dc, as well as national websiteswe'll advertise on. we also go to the architecture blogs like architizer, archinect, we'll postthere and even in indeed.com, we'll post on those websites.samantha: awesome. rob, as the director of
staff operations, what are some of the qualitiesthat your firm looks for in a potential candidate? rob: i think it's going to vary dependingon the firm that's looking. for us, we're definitely looking for design talent. we'relooking for technical capability and collaborative skills. what we mean by that is somebody who'swilling to give and take ideas and willing to have their ideas not accepted as long asthere's a discussion about it. lastly, we're looking for a cultural fit,somebody that will be a good part of our firm. and that's just as important as everythingelse, but the biggest thing, and i think this goes for any firm, is you're looking for peoplewho can become critically engaged in their tasks. somebody who's thinking about why they'redoing something as much as how to do the task
because then they can add value to the projectbeyond just what's expected of them. and it's those people who become critically engagedin their work that end up being the most successful in their careers and that's what we reallylook for. tyler: yeah, and rob said something i wantedto highlight or rearticulate is that i hear from a lot of recent graduates or studentsthat are still in school asking the same advice. what can they do to prepare for that interview?what skills can set them apart? really what i tell them is it's just as much personalityas it is skills, so going into that interview and selling yourself as a person.i got my first internship in school as a second-year student with really no technical skills undermy belt, but it was really just based on my
personality. i went in as a confident, happyperson and they saw someone they wanted to work with. someone that would learn the skills,but someone that they knew they could work with and trust.kimberly: yeah, i think that's really important. i've been on both sides of that where i haven'thad a really fantastic, positive experience because i didn't have the self confidence.but when i worked more and gained more experience, my confidence level grew a lot and that definitelymade a difference when i was interviewing. you really have to be at the point where whenyou're walking out of an interview, you have to be okay that maybe that's not the job foryou. maybe that's not the firm for you, and that has to be okay. you have to be all rightto just walk away. i think that's the biggest
thing. put yourself out there.rob: can i add to that the notion that you're going to walk away but not forget about them,because once you've interviewed with them, they know who you are and they might actuallywant you to be one of their employees, so now they're part of your network. you mightnot want them now, but in two years they might be the perfect fit for you. so once you havethat interview, maintain those contacts. it all goes back to the network and that they'renow part of your network. kimberly: and always send a thank you note.rob: yeah. samantha: rob, let's say there's an open position.how many resumes might you sift through? rob: we'll get hundreds of resumes for a position,and we have multiple positions open, so multiply
that. it becomes a challenge, so what happensis, and you've probably heard this before but it's true, you literally have 30 secondsfor your resume to get you the interview. and the best thing that you can do with yourresume is send in a series of work samples or teaser pages that allow us to get a goodgauge of what project types you've worked on and the skills that you have to have tooffer. samantha: what makes these work samples standout? rob: it's basically eye candy. you have tolook at it like that. it's something that's going to attract our attention and say, "yeah,wow, this is great. we want this person." it's great renderings. it's maybe some sketches.hand sketches are fantastic. if you have a
good conceptual sketch that you can include,that's going to really stand out as well. tyler: i think that it's important to addthat it's not the whole portfolio at that point, right? the portfolio is something thatthey might ask for while you're filling out that application or in that process of tryingto get to the interview. send in the work samples, leave the portfolio for later. keepit limited. be careful about what you include. show your best work in those work samplesand try not to just send everything up front. kimberly: yeah, and then it goes back to whatyou end up bringing in too. what does that end portfolio look like, and we had talkedearlier that it shouldn't be digital. rob's seen a few instances.rob: i think the best way to approach the
interview and the portfolio is that this isa way you're going to show off your work and so it's a tool for you to tell stories with.and if you come in with an ipad or a laptop, it's very hard for many people to see it atone time. i think i even had a person come in with an ipad mini, which is almost thesmallest platform you can imagine except an iphone, which i wouldn't be surprised if somebodytried to do that, too. i really recommend large printed sheets because it's much easierfor people to see, plus you can avoid any potential technical difficulties.kimberly: i've gone in with an entire stack of drawings from projects and then employerscan flip through and you can point out what you've done and why you've done them, maybesome things you've learned.
rob: a half-sized set of cds is a great thingto bring along because you can flip it open to a sheet and show the building sectionsthat you worked on, some of the details. that's fantastic, and you were talking about it doesn'thave to be such a high-end design. tyler: to me, my portfolio wasn't even themost used tool at my last interview. it was that half-size set that i brought in and thatwas the story that i was walking them through and showing them what i had worked on in thatproject, what i had learned. the portfolio was this quick eye candy that got passed around,and i had a couple different copies of them. what i always tell students or recent graduates,(is) don't get so caught up in that graphic design. every line doesn't have to be measuredand perfect in the portfolio. your work should
show and be quality work, but you don't needto spend those hours and days and weeks and months agonizing over what's this perfectportfolio. it's just like a resume, they're going to flip through it pretty dang quick.rob: simple, clean, easy to read. for resume and portfolio, that's the mantra. don't overdoit because it's all about you and the way you use it to tell stories. i know we're divinginto portfolios right now, but the best way for you to get across the skills you haveto offer is to tell stories during the interview process.there's a great example of a woman who had an army barrack in her portfolio, and sheflipped the page and she said, "i have an army barrack here. it's not that interesting,except here's why it's interesting to you,"
and the she went on and told me a story abouthow during the construction of these army barracks she faced all these challenges becauseshe didn't do the cds. what i learned from her was her ability toovercome these obstacles and work with the contractor and forge these alliances to getthe project done. so even though her portfolio had army barracks, i realized at that pointin time that's a person i want to hire. samantha: that's great. let's step back abit. before you get to the interview, what are some things that you can do to preparefor the big day? tyler: i think researching the firm. certainlyevery interview i walk into or every application i send out, i even start before the interview,i'm going through every page on their website
and figuring out who the principals in chargeare, what their backgrounds are, what market sectors that firm is working in, and oftentimesi'll even take a step back and maybe rearrange my resume based on those market sectors.if i'm getting ready to send in an application for a firm that does all housing, i don'twant to show them that i've worked on only libraries or some other project type, so i'mgoing to maybe reorganize my resume and my cover letter a little bit. taking those stepsto come in and be ready to talk about the firm during the interview, you have to doyour research and know ahead of time who you're going to talk to and knowing you want to workthere as well, and that's going to show them you want to work there.rob: it is totally appropriate to send an
email to ask who you're going to interviewwith. tyler: exactly, because another thing i'vedone as well is finding out more about those people, looking them up on linkedin or elsewhereon the internet, and then you can find out maybe that the principal at that firm wentto the same school you did, so you already have something in common. that makes you thatmuch more memorable during the interview when you can say, "oh, you went to here as well."kimberly: for me, my experiences have always been very small firms, probably 12 peoplemax. but for me going into some of my job interviews, yes, be prepared, giving yourselfthat self confidence and getting psyched for that interview, but also learning maybe whatthey could use help in. knowing that, "oh,
i've got some photoshop skills. you guys aredoing marketing. maybe i can help you out with your marketing," and figure out waysthat you can be an asset and sell yourself to that firm in different ways than just yourarchitecture skills. robert: that's great.samantha: you had mentioned that you worked at a small firm previously, so are there differencesin preparing for an interview at a small firm versus a larger firm?kimberly: i'm not sure that there are too many differences. an interview is an interview,and i think they're pretty common throughout the profession. but that is really one thingthat i did look at. i knew that they were trying to launch a new website and i knew,"oh, i know a little bit of wordpress. let
me see if i can help you with this" or "isee you're trying to get into marketing" or i heard what they were trying to do. i don'tknow, maybe a restaurant and so i flipped to that page and i said, "hey look, i havea little bit of experience. i was just still a year out of school when i did this, buti understand this. this is how i can help you," and those are ways that you can interactwith them. rob: it all goes to research and being preparedfor the interview, so it doesn't necessarily matter if it's a big or small firm. it's justwho are they and how can you help them. tyler: yeah, the interview's going to staythe same, but the difference between the size of the firm might inform some of the questionsyou ask during the interview or how you prepare
for it.samantha: another important takeaway is that you are interviewing the firm as much as they'reinterviewing you. rob: it's true. can i speak to that? as theperson who's doing the interviews, i like it when people come and they are asking mequestions about my firm because it shows that they're engaged. they want to be part of whatwe're doing. they want to learn about us and that they value themselves enough to try andmake sure that we're a good fit for them, because we're certainly trying to make surethey're a good fit for us, so i think that's fantastic.tyler: i've been in situations where i've needed a job and then i've been in situationswhere i could take it or leave it, and that
is probably the best situation you can everbe in because you go in there knowing if this doesn't work out, it's fine. i love my jobas it is and if this works out, fantastic. i know that's a hard spot to be in, but itis the most wonderful spot when you're interviewing for a job. either way it comes out would bethe best of both worlds. samantha: we had spoken earlier a bit aboutgoing in there, i think tyler you spoke to this, and having the confidence to sell yourselfand your skills and what you can do for that firm. let's say you're not in a position whereyou can take it or leave it. how can you leave that behind? that, "okay, if i don't get thisjob, i'm not going to be able to pay rent this month." what are some tips to help exudethat confidence and really show that you are
the perfect candidate for this position?tyler: hopefully it's not a matter of rent. that would be unfortunate. i think with anyinterview, anytime you're going after a job or you're trying to be successful at somethinglike this, it's a little bit of a mental game. you have to psyche yourself out beforehandand see the goal at the end. it's like sports. you see yourself hitting the ball with thebat and then it happens. when you prepare for that interview, you have to, like yousaid, set that stuff aside, convince yourself that you're the one for it, and get your positivityup, your confidence up, and really just go in there ready to show your best self.i think the biggest mistake i made in an interview once, and i found this out after that firmcalled my reference, and his feedback to me
was, "we really liked tyler as a candidate,but we didn't see any of his sense of wanting to change the world or all this volunteerismthat he does." because that was what my reference had to say about me and they said, "we didn'tget that. all we got was his interest in production and these things." after hearing that, i realizedi never really told them who i was. i jumped right into the architecture stuff.it's important, like we were talking about earlier, to take that minute when they say,"tell us a little bit about yourself." that's your spotlight. that's your chance to be onstage,to be excited, smile, be who you are, and show that personality and hopefully, likewe were saying, it's the personality that they're going after.kimberly: part of being prepared is really
knowing what your strengths and weaknessesare. for me, one of my interviews i definitely had a lack of self-confidence, i really did.i didn't realize that until they called my references and they expressed that. i waslike, wow, i didn't realize that was coming across, so for future interviews i definitelymade sure i had that in check. my confidence grew as everyone's will whenthey start working and they get used to what they're doing and get more involved. but knowingthat, i was much more aware of that in future interviews because you don't want to put thatout there. you just want to make sure you know what you're putting out there when youare interviewing. rob: something that helps you to gain confidenceis the notion of hopefully, before you actually
start looking for a job, is you really sitdown and think about who you are and what you want. what's my skill set, what do i haveto offer, and what do i want out of my career? then you can target the firms that you'relooking for. you can craft your resume for that, and you can also craft your portfolioso that your portfolio is a tool to help you express those things.if you're talking about yourself, about your personal goals, your aspirations, and whatyou can offer, then you're coming from a point of confidence because you're just talkingabout yourself. you're not necessarily coming in saying, "god i need this job so badly."you can just say, "this is who i am, this is what i have to offer you," and it comesfrom the heart. it comes across to the employer
so much more than the sense of like, "oh mygosh, i really need this job. please hire me."also, i would note that the portfolio really just sits on the table as a tool for you touse. it's mostly about conversation because we're not hiring a set of skills. we're notjust hiring somebody who can do revit, somebody who can design and do photoshop. what we'relooking for is the person. we're interviewing the person, not the skill sets. if you understandwho you are and what you want, you can get that across more clearly and it really iseffective in the interview. tyler: i think the important thing about thenotion of who you are and what you want and prepping yourself ahead of time is it helpsyou answer those questions that you're unprepared
for. the question you don't have that answerfor, you can tie it back into yourself and your own skill sets if you have that self-confidenceand you've prepped yourself for, again, how you're selling yourself, who you are beforehand.rob: exactly right. samantha: so i think we've all had that question,"tell me about your weaknesses." how can you put a positive spin on that question or asimilar question, because it's bound to happen to everyone?rob: i don't think it�s necessarily a great interview question, but it does happen andi've had to answer it myself, and i think the thing you need to do is always stay positive.you certainly don't want to give your deepest, darkest secrets, but anything that you dosay should be in a positive light.
for instance, one of the answers i've givenin the past was that i'm really motivated and i tend to take on a lot more responsibilitythen i can often handle, so it took me a long time before i could learn that i have to slowdown or find a way to delegate that responsibility. i'm talking about a weakness, but i'm showingit as a positive point in the profession or it's a weakness or mistake that you made andyou tell the story of how you overcame that. that's the best way to handle that sort ofquestion. tyler: i think another simple answer thatwe were discussing earlier, especially for someone out of school, (is) it's easy to sayyou don't want to identify a weakness or maybe you really just honestly don't feel you haveone, but an easy one is just your lack of
experience. that's something that's very simple.it's very honest and is just saying, "i'm talented, i have these skill sets, but i don'thave the years under my belt. i'm fresh into the architecture profession. i'm going tobuild on that and experience will grow with time."kimberly: that's really how you guys can use idp to your advantage because you can talkabout, "i've got a lot of cds. i have a lot of hours in cds, but i feel like i don't haveenough experience with my design development, dd. i don't have a lot of hours in dds, andi feel like i could really use some work on getting more experience and really raisingmy awareness of how i work and things i need to learn in that field."that's really where you can take advantage
of using idp as one of those questions that,like rob said, he loves it when you guys come in with a list of questions. have that beon there. talk about your experiences and how you can use those experiences to helpthe firm, but then also to show them that you want to learn and move forward with yourcareer. rob: idp's a great framework for that. that'sthe intention. samantha: that's actually a great segue. iwanted to talk about the kinds of questions you can ask during an interview to ensurethat this firm is going to support your career goals, support you getting those idp hours,support your path to licensure. what kinds of questions can you ask during the interview?kimberly: idp and are, fantastic questions.
i usually tell students when i'm on the road,like rob said, having a list of questions is key. i've been one of them. i've been ininterviews and people are like, "do you have any questions for us?" and i've been justblank, so writing them down is really great and starting off with idp and are are really,really good because it shows your employer that you want to develop your career. youwant to become licensed and move down that professional path.other things you can ask, even in regards to the are, is what kind of help do you offertaking the ares? do you offer reimbursement? do you have study materials? do you have prepseries? i hear some firms have a lot of great resources for interns going through the path,so that right there is a great question to
start off and ask how the firm can help youin your professional growth. tyler: another important thing is knowingthe position that you're there interviewing for and what that description looks like,but also maybe looking ahead and knowing what that next step might be down the road andsimply asking that question, "i know i'm coming in for this. what are the steps that i couldtake or that you could help me with to get me to that next level?"sometimes it may come off as eager or a little too ambitious, but certainly just lettingsomeone know that you're interested in your own professional growth and you don't justwant to be a drafts person forever. asking those questions, leading, looking for theopportunists with your oral review to go over
that with your supervisors and figure outwhat those next steps are to get you to that next level.rob: those are great, and in fact we want people to be interested in their own careerdevelopment. if somebody doesn't really worry about that then it's probably not somebodywe want to hire. but also it's something that we're looking for�people who want to becomepart of our firm and help build the future of our firm. people who ask questions aboutwhere is our firm going, where do we see ourselves in the next three to five years are greattoo because you're interviewing the firm as much as they're interviewing you.if you are trying to gauge where that firm is going, it shows a lot of interest. alsoit's good for you to know are they heading
in the direction that i want to be in.samantha: that's great. let's say this is your first job and you don't have much experienceunder your belt. what can you do to get a leg up on other candidates? tyler?tyler: sure, so i get the first job, you don't have all that experience under your belt.getting the leg up on the other candidates, for me, what has been at the top of my resumealways is my volunteer experience, my involvement through the aias, now the naab visiting board.that's where i find my energy in my profession. it's how i recharge my batteries outside ofthe office, and that also helps me to develop a network.like we were talking about earlier, it's those connections that might lead you to your nextjob. that's certainly one way. then you can
use, again, your local aia chapter to go todifferent skill seminars or are classes. i think being involved for me is the one way.kimberly: i just have to piggyback off of that. networking, from my experience, that'show i've gotten all of my jobs, so i cannot knock that at all. extra curricular activities,you never know who you're going to meet. i was in a singing group and there was a seasoned,really well-known architect in that group. you get to network and you get to meet themin different ways and you never know when that next job opportunity's going to comeup. you might be on the top of their minds when they're thinking about you.tyler: i do want to add as well, credentialing is an important thing. obviously probablya lot of the people watching right now are
working toward licensure with idp or are,but just as much as you've been having that on your resume or having that conversation,it's something you might think is obvious, that everyone's working toward that. but i'vetalked to employers that they want to hear that during the interview as opposed to someonethey might just assume is going to go into that job and maybe licensure is five yearsdown the road for them. even if you don't have something done, saying you're part ofthe way through or i've passed two exams and i'm in the process, that shows them a levelof commitment that i think a lot of employers want to see.kimberly: can i add to that real quick? like i said with the singing group, you never knowwhat you might have in common with someone.
and like rob said, they're not just hiringfor your skills, they're hiring people. we all spend 40 hours a week. we pretty muchlive with these people that we work with, so you want to be able to get along with them.my last boss was a huge hockey fan so every time he couldn't go to a game, i would gethis tickets. we have that to talk about. you just never know when you're going to be ableto connect with someone and have an opportunity to engage with them.rob: that's great. that's actually a really good point.samantha: keep an open mind. tyler: yeah.samantha: at what point in the interview process is it appropriate to ask about salary? thisis a question that we've received several
times via email before the webinar so i wantto make sure that we got to that question. so, rob?rob: never, never. not until they bring it up. let them lead the discussion. please don'tcome in and ask what the salary is until they bring it up. that's a door opening. stillfollow their lead, but again, you're interviewing them so you do need information.for instance, if the discussions occur, do ask about whether they contribute to 401k,do ask about their leave, healthcare plans, but again, follow their lead. don't push toofar in that especially in the first interview, but later on if you have a second interviewor a salary negotiation, absolutely it's open season then.tyler: you want to let them ask you first.
certainly those things are going to be onthe table, but when they've asked you what you need to make or what your salary rangeis, then you know they're interested in you and again like you said, that door's openedup and you can start having those conversations. kimberly: i think there are some good resourcesfor gauging what that gap range is. rob: the aia national has a compensation surveythat they do every two years, and obviously as a firm, that's the only thing that we useas our gauge aside from what we're able to glean from other firms. but we really don'thave that much information so it's really the aia compensation survey that we use.tyler: and that's an important tool for those who can get access to it. when you are tryingto figure out what your worth is, you can
use that. and it's broken down by region,by city, by experience level, medium, high, and low, as well as your position. you canfigure out, i'm a zero to three year architect in terms of my experience in the dc area andthen you can go right to that chart and see approximately this range of what you mightbe worth, then that helps you when they ask what's your range or what do you need to make.then you're not asking outside of your range or giving them some astronomical figure thatthey're just going to dismiss you entirely. samantha: we've been on a very positive note.i'm going to switch gears a bit. what is the worst thing you can do during an interview?rob? rob: the very worst thing? there are so manybad things that you could possibly do in an
interview.tyler: no pressure. rob: yeah, so there's no pressure at all onyou. i thought about this a lot and i think the worst thing you can do is be unprofessional,and there are several things that fall under that category. one is not being dressed appropriatelywhich we discussed earlier, but it's not being on time, your behavior, are you using foullanguage, those kind of things come thorough and that's a big mistake.i think the biggest thing that's unprofessional is being negative either about yourself, aboutpeople you've worked with, or your previous employer. that is a big mistake. you shouldalways stay positive as much as you can and spin even the negative into a positive ifyou can.
tyler: yeah, and so speaking of spinning negativesinto positives, i would say the biggest mistake you can make, again i'm thinking back to thatone interview where i didn't tell them who i was. i think it's missing that opportunityto make an impression. that everything you're there to do is to make an impression, to leavethem something to remember you by. hopefully a week later or two weeks laterwhen they're coming ready to make that decision or maybe even a year later when they havea new job, you're still on their mind and they say, "oh, i remember tyler. he was theguy that was really about sustainability" or whatever it might be. you leave that impressionand then it gives them an opportunity to come back and hopefully hire you.kimberly: i think really what rob was saying
about coming across professional is that whenyou end up eventually getting hired by that firm, you want to come across in that interviewthe way you would come across with a client. they want to make sure that you can come acrosswith a client and really show what the firm is about, because you are representing thefirm at that point, so if you put that first foot forward then you're likely to followup. samantha: now we have time to answer yourquestions, so again if you have any, feel free to submit them using the q&a tool onyour screen. our first question comes from tiffany. "do you have any interview tips forsomeone who's coming back to the profession after several years as a stay-at-home mom?"it's a great question.
tyler: that is a great question. i have afriend actually that was coming back into the profession not as a stay-at-home mom,but after being laid off in the recession previously. and that was a big hang-up forher because she then had this gap in her resume that was filled with retail experience andother random experiences that were fairly not architecture related, a little bit farflung. really my advice to her was just go in onthe experience that she did have and simply acknowledging that the gap was there for areason. here was what she was doing. again, it came back to confidence. it was steppingback into an office for an interview and saying, "yeah, the recession came along. things weren'tgoing so great. i stayed busy with these things,
but now it's architecture. this is what iwant to do again." it might not be the ideal piece of advice, but the only thing you haveto build upon is your experience. if you did have experiences related to architecture,certainly there's a way you can package those and spin those in a light that might applyto that new potential employer. you might've been doing furniture design or something fora case goods manufacturer. that's something that's still relevant and something worthtalking about. kimberly: yeah, just staying positive andusing whatever you can. i wasn't laid off but i do have a whole bunch of different workexperiences. i worked for supermarkets. i've worked for film companies. using the customerservice aspect of that and knowing how to
talk to people and have relationships, soselling those points that you can learn in different jobs, using those and selling yourselfon that. rob: i would assume that you're acknowledgingthat your years of experience don't match your years out of school, so i think that'sa big thing is to acknowledge that. let's say you worked for two years then you becamea stay-at-home mom, so you're basically a two-year person to the employer. now the professionhas moved on in terms of technology. likely the firm is in revit now and you might notknow revit, so i think a big thing for you to help with the interview and just with yourwhole job search is to go out and to actually take a class in revit.understand what is the current technology,
what's the current knowledge base, and makingan effort on your own to learn those things. if you can come into the interview sayingyes, i'm doing these things to get caught up, that's going to go a long way.tyler: i do want to add to that, actually. for someone that maybe is in that boat andsay hasn't had a successful interview, if you feel comfortable doing so with that firmthat you're interviewing with, say you have an unsuccessful interview, asking them tofigure out what would it take for you to be hired by them, the reason they didn't hireyou, essentially. it could be revit, so then you find out, youknow what, i do need to go work on my revit skills, take a course or get a certificate.it could be something else entirely, but it
never hurts to ask. they might tell you, youknow what, they just don't feel comfortable telling you. as with anything, it's theirown personal opinion. it's the firm's opinion, so don't let that crush you too if it's somethingthat may be negative just against you in general. samantha: that�s great advice. thanks, guys.�what would you say should be the focus for students who are coming out of school?�i think this candidate is concerned about the gap perhaps between some of the classesshe's taking and real-world experience. kimberly: i guess just trying to make yourportfolio as strong as possible and highlighting your strengths in your portfolio when you'recreating that. highlighting the projects that you really feel passionate about and can speakstrongly to�why you made some of the design
decisions you did and stuff like that.tyler: yeah, it sounded again like gaps and maybe technology gaps, so again this goesback to revit and some other things. i found myself in that same boat. they were similarwhen i got out of school. it was right in that transition between cad and revit so thecourses we had in school were all cad. i had zero revit experience and now i was findingmyself interviewing in front of firms that were looking for that experience, so the besti could do without lying, was a little bit fake it.i had certainly touched the software before and had been in revit before but i haven'tdone it in a production environment, so how could i sell that and again sell myself assomeone that was hardworking, a quick learner?
i found a firm that was maybe willing to takea chance on me as someone who didn't have that full experience. and i picked it up reallyquick, so i think it's just a matter of, again, that kind of confidence, selling yourselffor what you do know and what you do have, and then riding on faith a little bit.rob: yeah, i think it's important too to know that the employers know that you don't havea lot of skills in the profession yet because you're fresh out of school. you may have greatgraphics skills, you may have great modeling skills, but you can't put together a set ofdrawings and so we know that and we acknowledge that. i think the best thing to do is highlightthe strengths you do have and talk about your goals and your eagerness to develop in thefuture. i think that's really the best thing
that you can do for yourself.kimberly: i think, just for a little plug, on top of that we have the emerging professionalscompanion. so if you know that a firm is really into sustainability, you'll find the associatedemerging professionals companion that goes with that. read it, do the activity, takethe initiative, and then you can use that as a selling point when you're in your interview.samantha: and earn idp credit. karla would like to know if a thank you note by emailis okay? rob: yes, it's fine. a thank you note by handis great, email is perfectly appropriate. this is my point of view.tyler: what i try to do actually, if it's that same day and if i was in a job and goingto an interview in that situation where i
really don't need it which is ideal, try andsend a follow up email that same day. just a quick note and thank you, and then followup within a week with a thank you card. either or, both are great but certainly you do wantto at least provide that follow up again so your name is fresh in their head.rob: actually can i jump on to that? maintaining contact, too. it's not just a thank you noteor an email and then wait to hear back from them. if, for instance, during an interviewyou discuss a particular architect that they like or that you like or you see an articleabout their firm, send a link to that article or that architect's website to that personmaybe three weeks later and say, "hey, i saw this. this reminded me of the interview. hopeyou're doing well." it's a great way to stay
in contact without saying, "hey, are you goingto offer me a job?" it's a really smart way to stay in contact.kimberly: you said something about that too, about applying to firms and the referenceversus cold calling, and even if a firm's not hiring, still send in your resume.robert: oh, absolutely. if you know who you are and know what you want, you're going totarget the firm you want to work for. you're going to send your resume to that firm evenif they're not hiring because chances are they're still interviewing. if you can getin that interview, as soon as they know they need to hire, they're going to go to thatlist of people they've already interviewed and you've got a job offer before they'veeven advertised.
samantha: apparently our panelists are architectsand psychics, because our next question comes from adam who wanted to know how effectivea cold call is for responding to a position without any network connection. is there anythingelse you'd like to add? kimberly: i haven't had much luck cold calling.tyler: again, if i'm understanding the question correctly, it's a cold call regarding an ad.the first thing i would tell anyone as advice, make sure you're reading the ad fully. i haveseen some ads where they don't want phone calls simply because, like you said earlier,you get hundreds of resumes for a position, possibly. if a position description goes out,they might now be getting 200 phone calls while they're simultaneously trying to manageprojects, and short staffed because you haven't
been hired yet.make sure a call is welcome firsthand, but yeah, then i think certainly if we're talkingabout a shotgun approach here, there are positions open, you might not have a reference there.first try and find a reference. linkedin again is a great tool for that. you might find there'sa friend of a friend, someone who knows someone at that firm that you can get some sort ofan in, and that's a name you can drop in your cover letter.otherwise, people still do get jobs without references, so it doesn't hurt to put thatout there. do the research though. talk about that firm and their projects in your coverletter and maybe tailor your resume to that firm.rob: definitely send the resume out. i'm not
so certain about calling, even if the ad doesn'tsay don't call. i prefer not to get phone calls. i'm probably honestly not going toreturn it and i probably won't take it, either. it's nothing against everyone that's applying.it's just i simply can't do it. i don't have the time.if you do decide to call and you get a voicemail, make sure you know exactly what you're goingto say when that beep goes off because you can ruin any chance you have by having a long,rambling voicemail message. absolutely ruin your chances.samantha: good to know. can a portfolio be a combination of digital and print?rob: yes. i think as long as the digital portfolio is something that's accessible. if it's anipad, make sure that you pass it around, but
i'd rather see the print version. when i saydigital, if by digital you mean a portfolio that's on the internet, that's great but don'texpect that the employers are going to have a way for you to access the internet to showyour portfolio online. tyler: i think the way i was reading that,or hearing that question rather, what i do, i'll send my cover letter, resume, work samples,just a couple of sheets. on top of all of those sheets, it's the very same consistentmy name and contact information, but then i have my personal website and that has myportfolio. if i'm following up to a job by reference,by email, or something like that, i might send them all of that stuff and then i'llsay, "oh by the way, here's a link to the
specific page on my website with the portfolioor the project types that you do, so here's my housing experience." everything they needis maybe attached to that email or they've already received it in print, but if theywant to explore more, they have that option to click the link, check out my website.at the actual physical interview, i'm still going in with print material only. i don'twant to rely on technology. samantha: do you all always bring copies ofyour resume? tyler: multiple copies.kimberly: you shouldn't assume that the recruiter is going to have them printed out waitingfor you. rob: absolutely. actually, in fact, i almostnever come down to the interview with the
resume. i leave it upstairs just to see ifthey bring copies. the other thing, and this is interesting, is that you can't controlwhat happens to your resume when you send it out.you email it out and then an administrative assistant may print it to black and whiteeven though it's color and then make five copies of that black and white copy, so youhave no control over what happens to your resume after you send it. if you come to theinterview with the perfectly printed color glossy pages and hand those out, then you'veactually established control again, so definitely bring copies.kimberly: actually, i had a question following that. resumes then also references. when doreferences come in?
rob: not until requested.kimberly: you always keep those tucked away. rob: please, yes. for your own benefit. alot of people have their references listed on their resume, but then again that's informationthat you're giving out there that you can't control. we may call the reference beforewe even contact you, and then the references may not know they're going to be called, soyou want to control that information. samantha: our next question comes from jason."how do you approach asking for a higher salary than what was first presented to you?"rob: that's a salary negotiation. it's okay to negotiate, that's the first thing. it'sokay, but it needs to be respectful and professional. i think that's the most important thing isto understand that they want you now. after
you've gone through this whole process, theemployer wants you in their firm, so they're not going to lose you over a couple thousanddollars, probably, hopefully. what you need to do is do your research andyou need to understand it's actually based on the compensation survey, this is what aperson with my years of experience in this position should be making, and then i bringthese additional skills to the table, therefore i think i am worth this much money. if youcome forward with a logical, respectful reason why you deserve more money, make it. and ialso recommend that you do it in person if you can or on the phone. don't just send anemail back trying to negotiate by email. that's a mistake. that's too impersonal.tyler: i think you were starting to frame
it there at the end because we were havingthis discussion during lunch. i think that the most important part is not just askingfor it if you're going to negotiate and you want a couple extra thousand or a couple extrapercent. not just throwing that out there but giving them real specific examples orreally reasons why you're worth it and what you'll contribute to the firm.if they're going to give you this extra money in hiring you, what else are you going tobring to the table or what are you already doing that you're going to do exceptionallywell, and then live up to that once you get hired. you don't want to get hired at thisgreat rate, this high salary, and then underperform. that's not going to be good for you. it'snot going to be good for your reputation and
the firm's certainly not going to be happy.kimberly: the other thing is you should know at that point what salary is going to be offeredand there may be added benefits that you didn't realize, maybe you didn't have in the jobbefore. i know when i moved from one job to another it was only about a thousand-dollarincrease, but i didn't have to drive an hour to work.i could save $50 a week in gas and i could just walk to work, so there were a lot ofadded benefits that (replaced) an increase in salary because i wasn't spending that moneyon the backend. talking about health insurance and all the other added benefits could havean impact. rob: actually that raises a good point, too.another thing to think about is it's not just
a salary. firms generally have a specificrange in which they're able to make an offer and if you're at the top end of that rangebut you still want more and deserve more, there's other ways to do it. for instance,maybe the firm could pay for your parking. maybe the firm could give you metro checksor public transit vouchers. these are things that have monetary value. even maybe additionalleave days. they have monetary value, but they can still say you're being paid withinthis range so it keeps it fair within the firm, too.samantha: our next question comes from reagan. "as a soon-to-be college grad, who shouldi have on my reference sheet and how often are references actually checked?"tyler: yeah, just like we talked about earlier,
leave them for request only. i will answerwho to have and especially as a recent college grad, that's oftentimes difficult. you mightnot have that professional colleague to have on there. someone that you've worked under,a supervisor. if you did have an internship in school, absolutely one or two of thosepeople. as high up as you can get at your firm that will still give you a good referenceand know your work well. you don't want to put the firm principal onthere who's, a) not going to have the time to pick up a phone to talk to that person,and b) might not have had any clue what you were doing at that firm.rob: last thing you want them to say is, "who?" tyler: and the obvious: no friends, no familyunless they're professional references. but
professors certainly don't hurt and they canspeak to your work skill and work ethic. kimberly: yeah, i still to this day have aprofessor on my reference sheet. i'm speaking from my experience. since i didn't have alot of work experience, i put maybe a previous job that wasn't necessarily architecturalrelated but they could speak to my work performance, that i showed up on time, that i was reliable,all of those things. someone that can speak to that.rob: you have to do the best you can do if you don't have professional work experience,so i think those are all great ideas. and yes, we check references. we absolutely dobecause i'm doing it honestly for my firm's benefit but for my own benefit as well. iffor whatever reason an employee doesn't work
out and then my boss says, "hey, did you checkthe references?" and i say, "no," that's really bad. that's bad for me, but it also is badfor the firm. samantha: matt would like to know how to turndown a job offer without insulting the firm and ruining your connection with them.tyler: that's a good question. i actually had an experience where i was fortunate enoughto have three different offers on the table coming out of not having had any work, stillpost recession. that was tricky because i had gotten one of those offers through a reference,but it wasn't so much in the specific traditional architectural realm, so it was easier to weighthat one out. i still had to be delicate in how to do itbecause it was that close colleague and friend
that had gotten that connection for me tobegin with, so definitely a phone call. email, like we were just talking about earlier, issometimes a little too impersonal. i think it's all in how you frame that conversationand letting them know that you can't take the offer.more often than not it's going to be because you hopefully have a better offer and i thinksomething as simple as, "i found something that's just a better fit for me." you don'thave to go into all the details; you don't have to spell out all the nitty-gritty. just,"thank you so much for the offer. would've really loved to have worked here and beenpart of the team, but found something that was a better match."rob: i think also just say that, "hey, i would
love to keep in touch with you. i think yourfirm's great and this is a better fit for me right now, but let's keep in touch." andactually do keep in touch. kimberly: to follow up on what tyler was saying,you want to leave a job like that as well. when you are deciding to move on to a differentfirm, that's how you want to leave things. you don't want to burn bridges. you want tokeep those networks and the connections fresh because you never know. recession might happenagain, you might need to go back to that firm. you never know.tyler: or that person that you've worked for at that previous firm now works at the newfirm that you want to get hired (at), and so that person that you just burned a bridgewith is now interviewing you again.
rob: that's true, and from my point of view,anybody that doesn't take our offer, that's somebody that they've already been vettedfrom us. we've already done all the work. we know this is a person we want to work withus so we're going to track that person over the course of their career and maybe in twoyears we'll give them a call to see how it's working out.you definitely want to keep in touch, and anybody who's actually in charge of hiringout there, i recommend that you keep in touch with those people that have not accepted positionsassuming they did it in a professional manner. i have had some people that, based on waythat they declined, they were off our hire list for the future.samantha: what's the biggest peeve that you
see during an interview?tyler: i think that one's for you. rob: biggest pet peeve. that's hard to say.i think that goes back to the mistakes and just people that aren't professional becausei think when you come in and you act professionally, that's showing respect for the employer. iguess that probably would be my biggest pet peeve.story, quick story. a guy came in, he was a fantastic designer. he was chewing gum,he had sunglasses on the back of his head and he was wearing flip-flops and jeans. iimmediately decided i wasn't going to hire this person even though he was fantastic atwhat he did, so i guess you could call that a pet peeve just because it wasn't respectful.kimberly: following up, dressing, figuring
out how to dress and what to wear on yourinterview. i would strongly suggest, as tyler has said, making sure you're being preparedand looking through the website, check out what people are wearing. maybe they have avery casual dress code. maybe it's business, maybe it's business casual. always figureout what their standard of dress is and maybe take it up a notch. that way you're definitelynot underdressed and you're showing how professional you are.tyler: i would say definitely take it up a notch. our firm is certainly casual dressmost of the week or any given day, but if there are client interviews, and that's usgoing out and trying to get our firm jobs, those people are all wearing suits or pantsuitsfor women, dresses and skirts, whatever it
might be. dress up when it matters. once youget the job, then you can wear your jeans and whatever makes you comfortable.rob: i have one more, sorry. firm handshake. look the person in the eye and give them afirm handshake. that matters, it really does. samantha: we have, i think, two or three moreminutes before we're going to get cut off. so before we sign off for the day, i was hopingthat each of you could briefly state one takeaway from today's webinar, an important tip totake home for all our emerging professionals out there.rob: as i said before, knowing who you are and knowing what you want. if you're ableto establish very confidently these are the skills i have to offer and this is what i'mlooking for in my career, it's going to benefit
you in your resum� design, your interviewskills, and even negotiating to make sure that you're getting what you want out of yourcareer. tyler: i think for me it really comes downto just being positive and being confident. when you walk in that interview, you haveto mentally set aside all those things of the skill sets that you might not have thatyou're worried about. you have to go in ready to win that job. it's that mental psychingyourself before hand, but always be positive and be confident and just display your bestself during that interview. kimberly: definitely networking. i'm reallybig about networking. you never know where you're going to meet that next person. youcould be sitting on an airplane talking to
somebody and then realize, "oh, hey. that'sa potential job," so networking is key. even as you move up through your career and youmove up through the firm, networking is huge, in that because if you can put yourself outthere, that can help the firm in the long run.rob: that's absolutely right. samantha: great, well thank you all for joiningus, and thank you for joining us. and be sure to check the blog next week because we'llbe posting a video recap of today's webinar. thanks, we'll see you next time.