About : standard furniture victorian youth
Title : standard furniture victorian youth
standard furniture victorian youth
sorry to stop this bubblingconversation, it's so wonderful to see so many of youin the room for this event. so i'm gillian triggs, forthose of you who don't know me, the president ofthe human rights commission. and it's a huge pleasureto welcome you all to our commission officers and may iacknowledge the traditional owners of the landon which we meet, the gadical people of the irnanation and respect their elders. well, we're here tocelebrate the report and
the launch of that report ofthe willing to work inquiry into employment discriminationagainst older australians and australians with disability. and there it is,this remarkable document. it was, of course, launchedofficially by the attorney general earlier thismonth in canberra. but today we hope tohear more of her work and how the inquiry progressed fromcommissioner ryan herself. and we have some wonderfulvisitors with us.
perhaps i could firstacknowledge the commissioners. we have dr.tim soutphommasane with us. we also have a verydistinguished colleague of mine, professor ron mccallum, andprofessor ross croucher. who has now a particularinquiry into elder abuse, which will be a wonderful segue,or follow on from this research. may i also verywarmly welcome two of our most recently appointedcommissioners that you may have been reading about in the media,who will take over from susan.
the age discriminationcommissioner, dr. kay patterson and the disability discriminationcommissioner alistair mcewan. and they will be starting theirwork with us later in july, but we are really delightedby these appointments. they will continue susan'simportant work and it's perhaps an education of just how muchsusan has been able to achieve. that the attorney felt the needto split the positions again and go back to a full-timecommissioner for age, and
a full-time commissioner fordisability. so, we couldn't be happierby those appointments. the quality isexceptionally high. well, before handing over tosusan, i'd like to recognize, also, that her appointmentdoes come to an end. and this is one ofthe last opportunities for us to recognize the contributionthat susan's made. so i'm gonna embarrass her. a few minutes ifshe'll excuse me.
she really has been a remarkableadvocate for disabilities and for all the australiansover the last five years. we've been remarkably fortunateto have somebody of susan's caliber here at the commission. she was of course the distinguishedsenator for the act. and she is the first woman tobe appointed to a labor cabinet. a remarkable achievement. she was appointedinitially as the age
discrimination commissioner. but she's demonstrated howa woman of a certain age can build on her professionaland political career. to continue to make a verysignificant contribution to public life. and i think, i've no doubt atall she'll continue to do so when she finishes here. susan's worked tirelesslyto build respect for older people in australia andher joint appointment for
those with a disability. and she's brought thoseskills to achieve very significant outcomes. a key feature of herappointment has been that she's transposed negative attitudestowards older people and those with disabilities intoa much more positive approach. and i think that is the greatlegacy of her work. i'd just like to say a word ortwo about the inquiry itself. it's the culmination of a yearswork by commission staff
into the nature, prevalence andeffects of both age and disability in the work force. the inquiry founda discrimination against australians witha disability and older australians to bepersistent and systemic. while they are willing to work,they're frequently barred from doing so with significant anddamaging impacts on their lives. and did we know fromour investigation and conciliation service at thecommission, dealing with about
23,000 inquiries andformal complaints a year. that two thirds of thosecomplaints arise in the context of employment and the deliveryof goods and services. so while we talk about andadvocate for a lot of things here,commission for asylum seekers, lgbti, indigenous,young people in our instituions. we know that formost australians for most of the time it's aboutaccess in a fair way to work, that is their preoccupation, and
that's across all cultures andraces and ages. so work is very important. we can't operate atthe commission on anecdote, we must work on the basisof evidence and data. and susan's report includesvery comprehensive data, and makes a number ofpositive recommendations. another feature ofthe research is that susan has called onthe business and employer groups to provide leadership inknocking down the barriers that
stand in the way ofengaging in fruitful work. and engaging with the businesscommunity is a priority for the commission. and there's a growingrecognition that to respect human rightsis good for business. as the evidence mounts butto use the skills and experience of thosewith disability and aged australians will addsignificantly to gdp. so may i very warmlycongratulate susan and
the team here at the commissionfor the report., please join me inwelcoming susan. thank you. >> [applause]>> well thank you julianne for that very generousintroduction and for setting this eventat such a level. i would also like to start byacknowledging the indigenous owners of the landon which we meet. the gadigal peopleof their aura and
express my respect to theirelders past and present. and to any indigenous personswho have joined us today. and i know there are a few. well and i also acknowledgemy fellow commissioner tim soutphommasaneis with us today. and, with jillian expressedmy delight that i have been, i will be succeeded, by not one,but two very distinguished australians, doctor kaypatterson, knr in the senate same time on opposite sides, buti don't know that that stopped
us combining forces on beingvery virtual australians. so i can is a particularlywelcome successor, and alison mcquenis replacing me in my brief role asdiscrimination commissioner. and he will beagain very able and experienced representativeof the disabled community. himself being a person who haslived with profound deafness and achieved a stunning career. so both of them are goingto make a big impact at
the commission andi'm delighted. and of course our special guestprofessor rob mccollum who as been chair of the united nationscommittee on the rights of people with disability. amongst numerous otherdistinguished legal appointments, and i'll introduce ron a little more later becausehe's going to speak to us. but i don't think we have inaustralia a more distinguished and valuable fellow citizenthan ron mccullough.
and, those i'd like to welcomeguests to maybe joining us remotely throughour live streaming. and also acknowledgethe ausland interpreters, and ai media, who are providinglive captioning services today. well, as jillian reminded us,almost 18 months ago, the commissioner received therequest from attorney general george brandeis to conduct anational inquiry into workplace discrimination againstolder people. and people with disability andthis was to be australia's
first such national stock takeof these important issues. i personally was delighted tobe given the task of leading this work. i'd already formed the view, throughout my term as agediscrimination commissioner, and more recently as disabilitydiscrimination commissioner. that the denial ofthe right to work, was one of the most widespreadand pernicious attacks on the rights of individuals wesee in australia every day.
the scale ofthe problem is huge. the implications of thisdenial are on such a scale, are damaging all roundsto our community, to the national economy,to business. but most of all, to the hundredsand thousands of individuals, who though willing to work and capable are deniedthe opportunity to do so. and through this discriminationthey are denied the benefits of dignity, independence,a sense of purpose and
social connectednessthat work brings. belief in the rights and benefits of work has alwaysbeen a core value to me. i've spent my long working lifecommitted to the rights of all australians to these benefits. regardless of gender, race,culture, age, or disability. so the fit was perfect for me. and i gained face on record. my thanks to attorney-generalgeorge brandis for
sending us this reference. my staffing position was this. everyone has the right to workbut too many capable older australians and australianswith disability are denied these rights becauseof discrimination. it was my job toexplore as widely and deeply as possible the realexperiences of those suffering discrimination and to come toan understanding of the causes. even more challenging, i neededto identify proposals for
change. proposals that would eliminatethis discrimination, proposals that could and would be implemented by allthe stakeholders, government, business, the community andindividuals themselves. we consulted widelywith older people, with people with disability,as well as with employers of all sizes across all sectors,and with advocates, legal practitioners,policy experts, academics,
industry representatives andunions, and some of these people with whom [inaudible] withus today and i welcome you. our consultations do takeus all over australia so that our understandingreflects what is happening in small remote country towns. as well as ourpopular suburbs and as well as in ourbulging capital cities. these contributions diverseas they were dig a line with all available datato support the view
that far too many older peopleand people with disability in australia do not enjoythe basic human right to work. just a quick summaryof those data. now, the abs shows that whilepeople aged 55 years and over make up roughlya quarter of the population they make up only 16%of the workforce. this age cohort is the fastestgrowing in australia and will remain so forthe forseeable future. labor force participationdeclines sharply with age.
last year, over 73% ofaustralians between the ages of 55 and 59 we're participating inthe labor force, but when we get to 60 to 64 year olds, it wasonly 56% and over 65 only 12.7%. now this sharp decline cannotbe allowed to continue. the number of over 65'swill double by 2055 when life expectancy will be wellover 90 for both men and women. without the changes we recommend people who lose theirjobs in their 50s may live up to another 40years without paid employment.
now a recent abs reportshowed that most people now expect to workuntil they're 70. they expect to, they want to,but will they find jobs? and when we turn to people withdisability, as surveyed in 2015, not only is the discrimination worse than that against olderpeople, but it is not improving. of a 53% of people withdisability would be participating inthe labor force and pay with 83% of peoplewithout disability.
not only our people withdisability much more likely to be unemployed, but they arelonger period of unemployment. now, the figures have hadnothing themselves, but what was really shocking wasthat the figures have not changes significantlyover the last 20 years. the persistence of thisinequality over a couple of decades when much has happenedotherwise to improve our understanding of,and support for people with disability,sends a strong signal.
the signal is this, thingswill not change by themselves. intervention is requiredto do what market forces alone will not. well why is thisdiscrimination happening? people are shut out of workbecause of widely held underlying assumptionsstereotypes admits associated with your age ordisability. in the prevalent survey wecommissioned last year, 27% of people overthe age of 50 reported
experiencing agediscrimination at work. and a quarter of those wholost their jobs because of age discrimination eventuallygave up looking for work. in the past year and i'mreferring to our own experience of complaints here,over 70% of complaints about age discrimination were inthe area of employment. and when we look at the veryrecent figures on people with disability in employment,almost one in twelve reported they'dexperienced discrimination or
unfair treatment becauseof their disability, and very worrying, a much higherpercentage of young people with disability, over 20% reportedexperiencing discrimination. when asked about the sourceof discrimination over a quarter of men, andmore then one in five women who experienced this discrimination,because of disability reported that the source of thediscrimination was an employer. so without change, especiallychange of employers' attitudes, young people with disabilitywill face a lifetime of struggle
to gain and keep employment. apart from the often devastatingimpact on individuals, discrimination also hassignificant costs for the australian economy. there are many recentpowerful studies setting out the scale ofwhat we were missing out on. one model shows that a 7%increase in mature aged labor force participation,would raise gdp by 2022, by approximately 25 billion.
another down to the productivitycommission estimated that 50 billion couldbe added to our gdp by 2050 if australia were tomove up into the top eight. always countries for employmentof people with disability. now the issues seven percentmore are the workers getting jobs. aligning australia withthe stronger performers for disability employment. these shifts are not huge.
they are not beyond us. and they would be good forbusiness. organizations thatare inclusive and diverse reporttangible benefits, in terms of productivity,performance and innovation. our report contains manyexamples of businesses with deliberate strategies ofincluding older workers and people with disability and they are businessesthat are doing well.
some outstanding leaders of suchbusinesses have joined us today, and i look forward tointroducing them to you when we move to ourpanel discussion. but, despite these positiveexamples, our major findings confirm that employmentdiscrimination is systemic, and requires action at multiplelevels attitudes and beliefs need to change. we heard many distressingaccounts from all the men and women about the way they weretreated in the workforce.
for example, a quote, employerslooked at my gray hair and told me i don't benefit theirclient or customer base. or it's as if i had a useby date on my forehead. or i never felt my age untili had to look for work. or, and this was said to someonein their 50s, you're old. why don't you take a longservice leave and retire? ageism in employment was so entrenched in some workplaces,that people started to believe that this is justthe way things are.
we were told, if you're a 40year old aboriginal man or woman, if youare still not employed, then the chance of gettingfuture employment is very slim. well, this might bethe way things are, but they are not the way things haveto be attitudes can be changed. we know in australiathat well-focused and sustained community education,and awareness campaigns have changed entrenchedattitudes, and behaviors. for example,campaigns to reduce smoking,
to wear seatbelts,to use sunscreen. all of these changed behaviorssignificantly into the benefit of the community. so we have recommendedinformation, and public education campaigns,around these issues. we've recommended thisto government and to business leaders. turning to job seekers withdisability, the inquiry learned of the pervasive lack ofunderstanding among employers
of the range, type, and impactof different disabilities. and the perception thatworkplace adjustments for such employees are costly anddifficult. one person told me i was witha disability job agency but applied for the job notmentioning my disability. the company continually wantedme to increase my hours, even though i couldn't manage. when i told the manger shesaid if i had told her i had a disability when i went for thejob, she wouldn't have hired me.
another, after completing undergraduate degrees in commerce and business, valerieunsuccessfully applied for more than 170 jobs in herchosen field of accounting. while waiting for one interview,valerie overheard an interviewer say to anothercolleague on the panel. don't worry aboutthe next candidate. we're only doingthis interview so as to be seen to bedoing the right thing. now, our report is litteredwith true stories like these.
these experiences take a tollon a person's self worth and self esteem. they undermine a person'sself confidence and impact their work forceperformance and engagement. and they keep happening andin all sorts of workplaces. of course, variousgovernments at various times have introduced policies andfunding designed to assist people to overcome suchdiscrimination to get jobs. they have providedinformation and
incentives to employers despitebeing well intentioned, these governmentprograms often fail. the inquiry found that withsome government policies the reduction of benefits thatresults from earnings some part-time income from casualwork actually creates. other programs and i referspecifically to the commonwealth funded job services programs,have limited impact. and they have limited impact, because they failed to matchthe individuals capacities
with the job to whichthey're recommending them. these values, resulting frompoor performance by publicly funded employment servicescan make methods worse. they lead to employerdisillusionment. employers are risk averse andwill say, yes, we tried an older person, or wetried a person with disability. it didn't work out sowe won't be doing that again. in the report, i've presentedmany personal accounts from disappointed employees and fromemployers who were willing but
were given the wrong advice. these stories, andthe supporting data, tell us that businessas usual is not enough. things need to change now. how should they change? well, let me at the outset beclear that change needs, change, to be effective,needs to serve all the players. the employment contractis a two-way street. to succeed, it must meetthe needs of both sides,
the employer and the employee. government sets the framework,funds are used for training, wage subsidies andinformation programs. if the government action doesnot achieve its purpose, public dollars are wasted andcynicism grows. well, let me move brieflyto our 56 recommendations. this is a big number, as myformer colleague, paul katey, used to say about budgets. this is a big number.
but i hope that the proposalswe are putting forward are practical and well groundedin what employers need and what will work for individuals. they make up a broad nationaland collaborative approach. they do not require massivenew dollars from government. a very important point to makein the middle of an election campaign. and arguments about budgets,they do not require massive new dollars, nordo they impose difficulty or
overly complicatedprocesses on employers. definitely not an increasein the dreaded red tape. well some of our priorities for government that i willjust go through briefly. we want the minister oflongevity in cabinet, to oversee the economic aspectsof our aging population. we want government to implementand report on national work force strategies to liftlabor force participation of all australians andaustralians with disabilities.
we want the common worldto adopt targets for the employment ofall the people and people with disability withinthe australian public service. and for the private sector,we would like to see the role of the workplacegender equality agency expanded to become the workplace gender,equality and diversity agency. so that that agency couldalso collect data on disability employment agepatents within employers as well as gender data.
then we'd know where we were. so today we have the benefitof a panel consisting of four australian companieswho are leading the way. but before i introduce them, i'd like to focus on whatit is employers can do and a summary of what wethink employees can do. first of all, we think employersshould set their own targets for inclusive workplaces. we're not recommending mandatedor legislated targets,
but we do encourage employersto set their own targets. we think leaders need to committo inclusive workplaces. we think employers shouldcollect baseline data so that you can monitor progress. ensure the work environment,including ict, is fully accessible. insist on non-discriminatoryrecruitment and retention practices. offer flexible workarrangements wherever possible.
facilitate transitions,a very important concept. transition, eithertransition to retirement or transition to work in otherindustries or occupations, or transition forthose reentering the workforce. target training forall the workers and train managers to managediversity and inclusion. we've based many of theserecommendations on examples of good practice identified overthe course of the inquiry. many businesses out there dorecognize the diverse skills and
ability of older australians andaustralians with disability. and we're fortunate to be joinedthis morning by representatives of such exemplary companies,transgreen, crown resorts, fnp group, andforest coach lines. shortly, i'll introducethese special guests. but it's also worth noting otheremployers who are making bold commitments anddeveloping innovative programs. employers likeaccor hotel group. accor have introduced anexperienced worker program for
people over 50,recognizing the skills and experience this groupof workers bring. accor have reportedexcellent results. saint john of god health carehas committed to supporting people with disability get jobs. they have partnered withdisability employment services to ensure thatcandidates short listed for interviews include at leastone eligible applicant registered with a disabilityemployment service.
in recent times, they have successfully employed51 people with disability. and this year, the newsouth wales public service became the latest largeemployer to have announced the introduction ofan all rolls flex policy. primia bid announced this oninternational women's day. he announced that 100% of jobsin the new south wales public service would be fixable by 2019on the basis of if not, why not? so i have all of the people whodeal with the new south wales
public service will keepprimia bid to that very important commitment. and of course we've allheard of banning's. they're stunning businesssuccess is based to a significant extent on theirhigh levels of employment of all the workers with relevant tradeor building or other experience. the inquiry's recommendationsare cognizant of the reality of the needs of ournational economy, now, and through future decades.
we must ensure that skilledolder workers in sections that are shrinking,such as car manufacturing or coal mining, are not forcedinto long term unemployment or involuntary early retirement. the key to supporting such workis access to effective skills training that will lead theminto growth sectors and jobs that actually exist. and we make several recommendations alongthose lines.
there are new jobs in australia,plenty of them. for example, in the growth ofrobotics and it, renewable energy, the expanding age careand disability sectors and even the latest submarinebuilding program. now this massive project is expected to create2,800 australian jobs. some of these jobs shouldbe opportunities for older workers appropriatelyretrained, say, from the car manufacturingindustry in south australia.
they should be able to takeup some of these jobs. and i have in mind here, a proposal for acceleratedmature-age apprenticeships. now we do know that whatworks for large companies may not work always for smallto medium size enterprises. but having said that,many small employers we spoke with had very innovativeideas and approaches. for small business owners,we could see greater access to customizedsupport and information would
help them employ older peopleand people with disability. we became crucially aware as westarted the inquiry that poor management of health issuesaccounts for more people being forced out of work prematurelythan any other factor. so, we took advice from a panelof health policy experts, and we do recommend initiatives tocreate healthy workplaces and provide practical support so that all the workers who maydevelop problems associated with aging can continuein their jobs.
we have recommendedfurther review, or change, to some existing laws. the rules around worker'scompensation and insurance, especially incomemaintenance insurance, can act as barriers to peoplecontinuing their employment. in relation toantidiscrimination laws, generally we haveproposed some changes in the methods of definitions. and we want to improvesimplicity for
individuals complaining about,or claiming discrimination, ona number of protected grounds. for example, problems with ageand disability together, or gender and age,as frequently happened. with regard to fair work,we suggest that some fair work provisions, in relation to theright to request flexible hours, or unpaid dismissal onthe grounds of discrimination, are due for review. so, we have proposed a fewmeasures of law reform, but
most of the report, goes to the reform of the labormarket, to attitudes, policies, and practices,at all stages of employment. now i'm confidentthat the changes we propose are realistic. they're evidence-based, and are already in placein some workplaces. this report is a reflectionof the contributions of many people, and i'm gratefulto those who took the time
to attend a consultation,write a submission, or assist with the inquiry. i thank my commissioner,colleagues, president. especially mick gooda,indigenous and social justice commissioner,who undertook consultations with indigenous communities, andformer commissioner jim wilson, who also assisted withrelevant lbgti aspects. i'm particularly gratefulto the inquiry team paid by milary preznisky, andto the distinguished experts who
comprised our four expertadvisory committees and gathered such sound andfruitful direction. i trust that the findings andrecommendations of this inquiry will spark action andcommitment. and intensify efforts to addressemployment discrimination against old people. and those peoplewith disability, so that all of those whoare willing to work can work. we all stand to gain, thank you.
>> [applause] >> thank you, now before we proceed tothe panel discussion. it's my great pleasure tointroduce emeritus professor ron mccallum ao who gave us a lotof assistance with this inquiry. ron's cv is so long andso distinguished, but the highlights. he was the foundationprofessor in industrial law in the faculty of lourdesuniversity of sydney until 2007.
and this was the first fullprofessorship in industrial law at any australian university. ron is the first totally blindperson to have been appointed to a full professorshipin any field, at any university inaustralia or new zealand. and in 2011, he wasthe dean of the faculty of law preceding our distinguishedpresident gillian riggs. they get very classy deansover at sydney university. >> [laugh].
>> and of course he waselected to the first committee on the rights ofpersons with disabilities of the united united nations. which monitors compliance withthe convention on the rights of people with disability. a huge international impact aswell as a national impact so ron, please address us and giveus your views about the topic. >> president professor gilliantriggs who is a beacon to us all in the field of human rights.
commissioners susan ryan and race discriminationcommissioner. special welcome to commissionersdesignate my good friend dr. k patterson and my equallygood friend alice d maquen. can i just say as a writer,often some of these jobs go to blind people or wheelies,people in wheel chairs. i think it's very special and important that one of ourdeaf brothers has this job. and will give greater prominenceto those who are deaf or
hard of hearing. i wish to obviously acknowledgethe gattical people of the euro nation. i feel an empathywith the elders. the elders are the custodiansof the lore. and as an emeritus professor,which is academic speak for has been. >> [laugh]>> i feel myself a custodian of our laws, soi offer them my deepest respect.
when commissioner susan ryanasked me to join a reference group,i said. is this for the aged ordisability, i qualify for both, and she said,disability will do. what stood out for me in the report is thatthe employment rate of we, people with disabilitieshas not moved for 20 years. it's about now 53%,but 20 years ago, it was about 52% it droppedfrom 51%, it's now up.
but it's remained the samedespite the increases in technology. and despite the higher standing of persons with disabilitiesin the community. and i forgot, i apologize, i want to acknowledge missmaryanne diamond, from the ndis. but more importantly she isthe president of the world's umbrella disability body, the internationaldisability alliance.
it's great to have you here. in 2012, the australianparliament, in a bipartisan move, enacted the nationaldisability insurance scheme act. when you read the report, fromthe productivity commission. it was sold tothe government and to the public on the groundsthat it wouldn't cost much. because with the increasednumbers of persons with disabilities in the workforce, productivity would jump upby billions of dollars.
and commissioner ryan gaveyou the exact figures. problem is, the ndis of itself,won't increase the employment of weakpeople with disabilities. it will make us more ready,it will educate us better, it will help usout of our homes. but it does nottake the step nor was it designed to take the stepof obtaining jobs for us. and this requiresas the report so ably shows an enormouschange in public attitudes.
attitudes of employers,attitudes of trade unions and attitudes of the general public. my first experience ofdisability employment was when i was six. i had been involved insegregated education at the royal victorian institutefor the blind in melbourne. which had modernized it's namea few years before i attended it was the royal victorian asylumfor the blind. but of course the word asylumin the 19th and 20th century had
slightly different meaning fromthe majority meaning we now use. in our playground therewas this wire fence. i'm pointing long wire fence andwe knew that that was a factory. because when we were playingin an afternoon we heard the knock off. and i even learned at the ageof six that this was where blind people made brooms and baskets. and in the early 50s it wasquite a badge of honor to have a basket forshopping made by blind people.
one staff member was beingto me, and she said, in tens years time,when you're 16, you'll be over the other side andi won't be responsible for you. i was suffering, or ourfamily was suffering domestic violence at home through fatherwho was suffering world war ii post-traumatic stress, etc. and i thought, life isn'tlooking too good if i end up over the otherside of the fence. and i remember sitting on mykindergarten teacher's knee.
and she told me that iwouldn't end up there. and actually, she read me bookswhen i was in law school, believe it or not. but what it's shown me,i think, is that, although, attitudes are changing and they have changed a greatdeal in the last six decades. and although, technologyhas helped those of us with century disabilities,blindness and deafness. and although, buildingsare now far more accessible,
my sisters and brothers inwheelchairs and even for me. we still need to changepublic attitudes, and i think that's a bigmessage from the report. now, commissioner susan didmention that i was an inaugural member and a chair of the unitednations committee on the rights of persons with disabilities,and my mandate after twoterms is finished. and i don't liketalking about the past. i hear too many people talkingabout what they did 10,
20 years ago. so i have looked atthe more recent reports and i just want to makethe following comments. article 27 of the convention for we persons with disabilitiesmakes it very clear that we have a right to work as julie soably noted. a right to work inthe labor market for the same wages as everyone elseand the article is detailed. when countries come to dialoguewith the committee now.
i think we've had about 36. it's interesting that 17 ofthe 18 members of the current committee are personswith disabilities. but when you look at theirquestions to governments on articles 27, they're shy! they'll ably talkabout discrimination, importantly talk about violenceand sexual violence for women andgirls with disabilities. but they pussyfoot around and
i guess i should say i pussyfooted around in the past. why? i think because all we peoplewith disabilities know that it's really hard in mostcountries to get work. and so, when we startquestioning governments, we're a little bit diffident. because we know in our own livedexperiences that it's really difficult. and we all know in our heartsthat what we need is a change of
public attitude, employerattitude and people attitude. another interesting thing isthat i've been looking at all the reports, many governmentsdon't want to change attitudes. that's very hard. so, they'll simply pass a lawsaying there'll be a quota of people employedwith disabilities. and i ran across this is europe,in austria, in parts of germany. it's very strong inlatin america and when you questionthe governments in geneva.
they come before us, they say,well professor, we have a quota, so all's good. well i decided to dosome investigating and i found that the quotasin argentina, were there on the statutebooks that weren't enforced. i found in austriaonly 27% of companies over particular sizeadhere the quota. the rest payed a very smallextra percentage in their tax increase in theirtaxation payments.
and if they are goodin dodging tax or minimizing tax,it wasn't match at all. and the quota systemwas a cope out. what we really need fromgovernment is a change of attitude, and we need peopleto understand that we persons with disabilitiescan perform many jobs, most jobs in fact,with technology. we want to work. as the report says,we're willing to work.
we work very well. we take less sick leavethan do other employees. we have less safety and healthissues than other employees and we rarely, if ever,go on strike. i welcome the report,i applaud commissioner susan and her team,with whom i spent many hours. i think this isa superb report for this great humanrights commission and i'm truly honored to be speakingto you today, thank you.
>> well, thank you ron. i mean i knew ronwould say it all and really express what all this isabout and, of course, he did. thank you so much. now i'd like to invite outboard industry representatives to come up and take a seat andwhile they're doing that, susan honeyman, who is fromthe fmp group in ballarat, kiara vanvleet from transsuite, ian mcdonald from the aptia,
the national bustransport association and demi cukan from proud. now, each of these representsa company that's entirely different in characterfrom every other one. as you know, there's three ofthem representing manufacturing and technical kindsof companies, where we often think itwould be more difficult for all the people, or people withdisabilities to get employment. all of them have put inplace highly successful
strategies to increase theemployment of older people, or the employment of peoplewith disability, or both. so what i'd like to do is inviteeach of the panel to tell us very briefly why your companydecided it was going to do something about the employmentof older people or the people with disability. and after that general statement is about whyyou are coming to this. we'll have a few more questions,
including questionsfrom the floor. so, susan, i'd like to startwith you, susan honeyman. why did fmp decidea few years ago now, to increase the recruitment andretention of older people? >> hi everybody, i'm susan,and thank you for inviting me to be here today. i'd love to say it was astrategic move that we made, but it was really by accidentthat we started working in this field.
we started off with the reviewof our work covered premium, which lead to a reviewof our demographic. and once we looked atour demographic and the work covered data,we quickly discovered that it wasn't how all the workers thatwere accessing work cover, it was actually ourmiddle aged workers. and looking at our demographicit made us realize how many older workers we had, and what impact that would have onour business in the future if
we did not do something aboutprotecting the skill and knowledge that those peopledelivered to our business. so- >> excuse me madam susan, i neglected to say yourcompany is based in ballarat which is a significantaspect of a whole. >> and we're in the dreadedautomotive industry so we will almost havea trifecta region located in the automated industry, yeah. so, we needed to changethe mindset of our workforce to
reflect the contribution thatour older workers make to the business. and more importantly, becauseour middle aged workers were the ones that wereaccessing work cover, we needed to changetheir mindset. because they were gonna age overtime and that could have led to disaster for us in our costsassociated with work cover, so we did have a loomingproblem ahead of us. we also had the potential forhundreds of hours of skill and
experience to leavethe business all at once so 25% of our workforcecould retire. and if they all walked out atthe same time, the traditional way is they come, and resign,and leave four weeks later. it would have lefta huge skill and knowledge hole in our business. we were already havingdifficulty replacing senior roles, because of our regionallocation in our industry. and traditionally, it mighttake us five or six months to
get somebody to take up a seniorrole in our organization. so, despite the fact that we'rea very systemized organization and very structured inthe way we do our work, there was key areas inthe business that were critical. and as much as we'd like tosay systems deliver results, we relied very heavily on anumber of individuals to deliver those results. and after thatdemographic review, it really did make us sitthere and think, shit,
are we ready forwhat's coming our way? >> [laugh] [inaudible] now ian,the bus [inaudible], tell us about that andthe other bus drivers. >> yeah, look there'sabout 50,000 bus drivers driving buses around the countrytoday thereabouts and the average age of thosebus drivers is 55 plus. we're not an industry whereyoung persons leave school and they tell their mates, i'm goinginto the bus industry, and i'm gonna drivea bus as a career.
in fact, we're right downthe bottom of the scale. what we tend to be is ourpersons who have had careers and either done well at them ornot done well at them or blames through life'sexperiences who are looking for a guaranteed income, where theyknow they got a guaranteed job, where they work ina team environment, and they can get somesecurity of tenure. and that tends to be peoplewho have second, and third career changes.
what's interesting, in forestcoastlines particularly, is that they've got ex-bankmanagers, ex-lawyers. you'd be amazed, it's alwaysa difficult negotiation for the enterprise agreementswith them because the- >> [laugh] >> drivers are actually smarter than we are. and it's not that easy but it'sthe career of somebody who's led a very high-power existence inone manner, fashion, or form,
he's just looking fora different thing. what our industry has alwaysprovided is it does provide the flexibility that we hear andhear about and talk about, so often with modern industrialrelations because in our industry there are bus depotsspread right across the country. in the larger metropolitancities, as you would imagine, there are bus depots spreadall around the suburbs, and in the country areas,there are bus depots. so the opportunityis available and
what i try to impress on susan,if she may remember, is that we were working forpositive discrimination. in other words, we positively discriminate,in relation to aged employees, because they're our client base,and so that was the reason. and it was said by ron,and you, and gillian as well thatis makes good sense to actually employ olderpeople in that environment. it's actually good for business.
ron said it and he's quite right is that olderpeople are more reliable. they've had life experiences,and they understand the requirement,particularly in our industry where you have tomake deadlines and schedules. and you've actually got to turnup every day because the buses gotta go out and the kidshave got to get to school. so we are in an industry wherewe rely on some degree of maturity, and that maturity isoffered to us for older people.
so one of the things that weunderstood right from the start, and i'll talk about it a littlebit later is that good health is the panacea of allproductivity and all ability to retain employment, and that'swhy we focused so heavily on the health and well-beingof our aged population. because we saw thatas a key towards keeping these aged employees. >> very important. now, kiera, briefly,trends please.
>> briefly, well,similar to susan, we needed too. we- >> [inaudible] >> so, trans green provides electricity transmission fornew south wales. so we connect the end users tothe generators and distributors. so we were particular riskof losing all the talent, like many other organizations. so our strategies have differedaround what we can do for people, whether it's flexibilityfor an individual to enable them
to keep working andhaving a flexible career. or freeing someone up to sharetheir knowledge with their colleagues, and transitioningto a different style of work. to us, the diverse and inclusivework place means a work place where everyone can contributeto the best of their ability. and without doing these types ofthings, and being agile in our response, we would have lostreally valuable knowledge and skills whether that wasthrough people leaving or becoming disengaged.
so that's it, briefly. >> now, demi coogan,bob's crown resort. i was absolutely thrilled todiscover, when we were looking for employers who werefocusing on opportunities for people with disabilities, thatcrown, such a large employer and ever growing it would seem,was doing just that. so give us a brief outline ofyour disability prone program please to me. >> yeah, thank you, susan.
can i just say, it's a realprivilege to meet you, today as well. and i think most people wouldbe aware of crane resorts. we have properties in perth andmelbourne and certainly, there's been a lot of attention insydney now in more recent times. as far as our progress intothe disability employment area, and we call crown ability,was really a logical extension of our customer base andour employee base. it's very diverse.
our employees, for instance, 60% of our employeesare actually born overseas. compare that to the nationalaverage of 25 and that it's quite staggering. when you look at our customerbase as well, very diverse, and it really started with ourindigenous employment program, back six or seven years ago. and at the time, we deliberatelymade a decision to get involved in extending our focuson diversity in stages.
we basically,didn't wanna bite off more than what we could chew. we learned a lot from ourindigenous employment program, in terms of whatthe key issues were. and importantly, the systemicapproach that you actually had to adopt in orderto be successful. so then, we decided two yearsago to enter the area of disability. and we've taken on the loaningsfrom our indigenous employment
program applied it tothe area of disability. it's great for our brand. there's no question about that. importantly taps into thepotential of people that we have in society, and going back tohow we grow as a society both economically andfrom a social perspective, there's a lot of people herethat we just don't tap into. and the other aspect too isthat it actually helps with innovation.
if you have a bunch of anglowhite people sitting around a table, and we're all agreeingwith each other, i don't think we'll see progress in a way thatwe could, if we had a really intro diverse compositionwithin the workforce. >> great, thanks. now we had the british just liketo throw a specific question to each one of you that said,whatever else you've got to say and then we'll goto the audience. now, first of all susan, youspoke about wanting to keep your
older workers andputting things in place. how do you manage the fact,eventually, even your valued and well supported older workerswill wanna transition to retirement. how do you manage that change? >> we actually havea program that we run and it's a multi faceted program andit's all about the employees. so we've got a model, it'scalled the you incorporated and the person's in the middle.
and then we try and look at what support canwe give our employees to help them plan fortheir transition to retirement. and that's thingslike education, family support,community support, your beliefs, your abilityto continue to learn. and we try and provide programsto our workers to help them right themselveson that model and have a think about retirement.
so, when we started doing this,some people said to me, why the hell are you makingme think about this? i'm just gonna retire andlife will go on. and it took us a couple of yearsto get people to commit to the program and actually realizethe benefit in the program. and superannuation, education, life coaching, things that olderworkers have never been exposed to and never think,i need to participate in that. so we did a lot of workwith that in groups.
we invited family membersto come along and participate in that, as well. and we had our youngerworkers asking, why aren't' i beingasked of those things? so now, we've expanded itoff to our younger workers. the second part was we have aprogram called joint action, and it's all about takingcare of yourself so there's a few parts to that. one is healthy movement,
so we have someone come in threetimes a month and our employees come participate in some healthymovement classes, where they learn to particularly,>> [cough] >> address the parts of their bodies that theyoveruse in our factory. we educated our employeesthe difference between an ache, a pain, and an injury. we want them to tell uswhen they've got an ache. we don't want them to wait untilit's a pain or an injury, and
it's going to takemonths to get better. we need to know the minutethey start aching. we have a physiocoming each month. he doesn't actuallyperform physio, he just gives educative physio. so he might write a referraltoward physio, but he develops programs for peopleto manage their own ailments, in the hope that we catchit when it's an ache and he doesn't end up having tosee them as an injured person.
and we have an ergonomist thatcomes on to site and assesses everything from your workstationto your path you might take during your day, the repetitiousactivities you might do. and we have a system on ourcomputers called break time, which reminds people to havea rest and a stretch and take care of themselves. and the other part was wemanaged to get a transition to retirement section into ourenterprise bargaining agreement. and that took a littlebit of a battle,
because it was about eight ornine years ago. and the unions didn'twant us to have that. and i guess, it's just all aboutbuilding that rapport with our employees so that they havethe confidence to come and talk to us about the future andnot just come and resign and say,i'm leaving in a month's time. >> well, that's so interesting. and i think when youdescribed what you did to do with the health andthe financial planning and
education about superannuation,healthy workplaces, i think every employer,julia, we do some of that but not all here at the commission, every employer could actuallyimprove the productivity of their business byfollowing those steps. so it's extremely interestingthat a small company in ballarat developed all this andis really leading. but i'd like to pass to you,because i was very impressed when we met before, aboutthe health promotion aspects.
recognizing that you havegot an older workforce. that people in their 50s, 60s are starting to getsome age related issues. but you have put somany constructive, practical things in place tohelp your employees maintain and indeed improve their health. and i'd really liketo hear about those. >> yeah, thanks susan. as you said, having identifiedthat health and well being was
an important criteria ofan aged employment population, we were able to secure funding. the old with the previousgovernment gave quite a significant amount of funding. and through the australianchamber of commerce and industry, we wereable to get funding, because a lot of thiswork of course is costly. and we partneredwith an independent rehabilitation provider,
which was really important inour industry, for instance, the management has difficultygoing to their employees trying to tell them they should beresponsible for their health. it's much easier, if somebodyindependent is coming along and they're talkingin a general way. the employees are morelikely to take it up. so what we did was we surveyed our broad membershipacross the country, and sort of tried to identifyaspects of our industry.
in other words, we try toget to know our industry. in other words, work outrelationships between middle management and employees, findout things that were creating problems in our industryincluding obviously aspects of the personal livesof our employees, as well which impacts ontheir health and well being. so once we had that survey, wewere then looking to embark on testing them,trialing it amongst operators. so that's when forest coachlines agreed to come on board.
and this was a trial processthat they undertook over a period of aboutsix to nine months, in which the rehabilitationproviders and got involved at the grassroots level with the company. we surveyed them to try an findout, in other words, the first step in this whole processwas knowing your industry. in other words, working outwhat the psychological, what the cognitive,what with the physical environmental aspectsof the business was.
and in our case,it was fairly simple, our employees drove these massive12 and a half ton vehicles. a lot of times in congestedareas, where they had a lot of interaction withmembers of the public, where they were required tosit for long periods of time. that they had short periods oftime to take their breaks, for instance, and that they wereconstantly moving their bodies around in a static waylooking at left to right and all the things you do, whenyou're driving large vehicles.
>> so having identified all ofthat, we set down with the work force at forest and identifiedsome initiatives that could be implemented to try toimprove, and well being. and we trialed that overa period of six months, and the trial includeda whole range of things, many of which i'msure you all do. the most successful onewas just a fruitbowl. it's amazing that was the mostsuccessful thing of the whole thing was just givingthem fruit every day.
we had to stop them taking ithome for the family, of course. but then it ranged from a wholerange of other things including where they took their breaks, negotiating with food outlets,where they took their breaks. the problem with a bus driver, when you've got 15 minutes togo and get something to eat and there's a chick on a rollin the bain marie. you're gonna get the chickenroll, you're not going to ask the person to make a nicesalad sandwich for you,
which make take five minutes,which is half your break. so we had all these things inplace so people would far as coach lines that were easilyidentifiable with their, obviously their uniforms. they were able to go in andget at a discounted rate more healthy food andthat was just another thing. the availability of the eaps, the employment assistanceproviders worked fantastically. forest was quite a smallcompany so it wasn't large.
but they have still implementedthe cap system, and it was amazing the number of employeesthat just used it sometimes for their own personal life. but when you've got yourpersonal life under control. your work life isalso under control. and there are a rangeof other things. the fitbit drivers are quitecompetitive amongst each other. so we had trials of thesefitbits depending on how you walk.
and i've done the fitbit. and it actually does workbecause you start competing against yourself. and it is a really good thing. and there was a rangeof other things. we had localphysiotherapists and local doctors happy tocome into the workshop. because they're all lookingto create client bases. and so we were able to givethe drivers a lot of information
about their own health, etc., on an individualconsultation basis. we then trialed it at the end, we did the survey againat the end of the trial. one of the things that iimplemented, of course, was a refresher courseon bullying and harassment in the bus industry. like a lot of industries, therewas a cultural bullying and harassment hierarchyin that culture.
and it was amazing to see thesebullish bus drivers going into meetings with young ladies whowere psychologists and so forth. and outlining life in the nonharassment and bullying process. and then coming out andbeing absolutely empowered as to understanding what bullying andharassment was. cuz a lot of times in theworkplace they just take that for granted. it's a culture that builds upthey don't really even know they're bullying andharassing people.
so what happened at the end ofthat trial was we surveyed and we found there was a muchimproved relationship with middle management. we found actually employeeswanting to take responsibility for their own health. and giving up smoking wasone of the big things. you wouldn't think that, but giving up smokingwas a big thing. so, i don't want tosay that this is all,
this is just christmas cake,and i don't want you to think that this is justsome magic solution, it isn't. but, in the instance that wedid with forest coach lines, we saw that you can implementthese sorts of changes and they do work. what happened was youdo keep your employees. they are an aged population, you give them security ofemployment and it does work. and that's the task that we'recommitted to continue, susan.
as you know, that'san advantage to our industry. it's an advantageto your industry. >> it's an advantage to all thepeople who use the busses and get on and off busses that thedrivers are much healthier and happier and so on. and it's an advantage to all ofus by providing such a practical example of how you dealtwith the particular issues. and got the good outcomes foryour business, for them and for your customers, soit's a great story.
now kiara, if flexibility attransgrid has been a big thing. and you've been successfulin providing flexibility to enhance the employment, say, of people with disability,people who are carers. now that's a common to everyworkplace, but not every work place at the moment is providingthe right sort of fix. would you like to tell us alittle bit about why you started to do it at transgrid,and how it's going? >> sure, so we have a longhistory of flexibility at
transgrid, a condensedwork week. nine day fortnight is thestandard work arrangement for most employees [inaudible]price agreement. and in the last agreement wealso added in flexy time. so people in our sydney basedoffices cuz we have field-based workers andoffice-based workers. so any offices can now choosebetween flexy time and nine day, fortight just as standard. for our more senior contractofficers, it isn't prescribed.
the hours that they do, they can select their ownflexibility around that. and we also have a flexibilityarrangement procedure which is accessible to everybody tolook at more specific types of flexibility. so with that procedure, werequire our managers to come and consult with human resourcesbefore they make a response. and the purpose for that is to help coach themthrough that process and
help us mitigate any potentialdecline, appeal situation. if we can work through themanager with the beginning, and put in a successful flexibilityarrangement rather than having that conflict. and we help work around those,and perhaps if a manager's not comfortable, andthey're not sure how it'll work. we'll suggest a trial to showthat these things do work. we can work together to seethe right arrangement for the team and the employee.
yeah, so a few examplesof work we've had. we've had quite a fewpeople look at transition to retirement. so working a different typeof condensed hours patent so they can maintain fulltime work over less days. so moving to four days. >> may nominate what [crosstalk] >> yes>> [inaudible] >> yes, so, the procedure's
not prescriptive. we don't say,you can choose a b or c. we leave it quite open to peopleto nominate, to come to us and say this is the type ofarrangement i'm looking for. and so we've also had peopleput forward, i've got so much leave accrued,can i use a day of leave a week? and, you know,transition to part time, but maintain theirfull time pay. and with a lot of ouremployees being defined
benefits arrangements, this hasbeen particularly important for them to maintain that pay. so it's been good to see thedifferent type of things that people have brought forward. we've also had peoplewho have retired and then returned laterdown the track. >> does that work? >> it works really well,it's really a great benefit for us to be able to bringthat knowledge and
skill back into the businessthat we might have lost. and really beneficial forthe employee whose decided maybe retirement isn'texactly what i wanted. and i do wanna continuecontributing, so it's fantastic tohave them back. >> thanks, now,when we met before, you told us that underyour disability program, you are placing three peoplewith disability a month? >> yes.>> which i thought was
absolutely fantastic. would you like to tellus a bit about how you recruit those employees. and how you prepare the rest ofthe workforce to understand and support the fact that theirnew colleague is a person with a disability. how does that workout in practice? >> thanks,we set ourselves targets. i'm actually amazed that there'seven a debate about targets.
it's generally accepted inmanagement circles that targets drive performance. just as in our ownpersonal lives targets or personal goals drive success,drive learning. so very early on we setourselves a target, now importantly we actually thoughtthree a month was modest. is our program management forcrown abilities is very enthusiastic andhe wanted to high targets. but after some discussionwe came to the conclusion
that you can overdo it. from the point ofview that you're bringing people into a system,into a culture. it's very importantthat those systems and that culture can actually copewith that level of change. so i think it's better,sometimes, people talk about stretchtargets which is great. but then, if the system and theculture doesn't cope with that, it affects the credibilityof the program.
and i think, more importantly,it impacts more self esteem of the actual participantsthemselves. so in terms of recruitment,we have preferred providers, in terms of providers. so we have people beingrecruited through that channel, and also directly. and we have a number of peoplethat we have employed directly. in terms of our targets, we setourselves a target of 102 at the end of the conclusionof this financial year.
we've now reached 108,which is great, and next year it'll be 138. in terms of preparing,if you like, the culture andthe organization, we focus on five elements,which cut across providers. pre-employment, the actualrecruitment process. so it's very important for ourrecruitment team to understand what we're trying to achieve. and the sort of things thatyou have to do in recruitment,
in the area of disability. placement support,absolutely critical. i think it's traumatic foranyone to be entering a new workplace, let alone someonewho has a disability. so being able to providea secure base for people under the program is veryimportant those first few days, weeks and months. and we also have, importantly,awareness raising workshops for our managers and employees.
so that they understand,and as lillian taught me, the term of a disabilityconfident organization. because i think, quite often,it's not that people are against it, it's a question ofawareness and maybe ignorance. and then people feel reluctant,and if you open that up thenpeople are far more accepting. >> well you've heard four reallymost impressive accounts of what these employers are doing. how they're going aboutthe success their having and
of course, the bottom line sincewe're talking about businesses, their business are profiting. but i'd like to give members ofthe audience now an opportunity to ask any of our panelista specific question. we've got about tenminutes to go and if someone's from the media, ifthey would identify themselves when they ask the question. but in fact everyone i'dlike to identify themselves, i see aloma, i think you'reabout to ask the first question.
>> [laugh]thank you. thank you all very much. that was truly wonderful and a real learning experiencei've got to say. just something,a comment really, with anne thatespecially impressed me if i heard you correctly andi didn't misinterpret. what i thought i heard wasthat you acknowledged the fact that your clients were older,as well as your drivers.
now i thought that wasabsolutely critical and as susan said about business, it never ceases to amaze me thatorganizations don't consider that older peopleactually are customers. and some of the olderpeople do say, well they don't want to dealwith me, i'm too old yet we are all customers, we allhave money and we all vote. but i think that was,i thought that was great that you did that andi like to know more about that.
>> well,you're absolutely right. people who take public transportare obviously kids who get transported to andfrom school. but also people who take publictransport are all of the people who require public transport. because either theyno longer drive or they might only haveone car in the family. often they are being takendown to their local shops or to the hospitals or to thedoctors and it is very important
to acknowledge whatyour customer base is. a part of any training that abus driver gets relates back to their customer base as well. so, you do hear a lot ofpoliticians correctly talk about public transporting,the terms passengers. and that's been drummed into ourindustry by, 90% of our industry are government contractedbase operations. and governments of all statesof persuasions this concept of, the passenger isyour customer and
that's how you should befocusing your operations. so that's a little bit off whatwe're actually just talking about today, buti'm agreeing with you in another way that that's exactly wherethe industry is headed as well. >> good well speaking asan older person who is a bus user i am verypleased to hear it. do we have another question? peter brady fromthe irt in delaware. i'd like to congratulateeach of you and
your organization onthe great job you're doing in breaking down those barriers of,for mature age employment. but my question is toall the panelists. a former ceo anda manager etc., etc. one of the key things we woulddo is mbas and we'd training whatever etc., to work atexploiting our junior staff. how do we get the knowledge andthe experience and expertise from them toenhance the organization and the productivity.
i'd like to just ask you,with the programs you're doing are there things there whereyou've got these older people that have joined your workplace,that you're actually engaging with the youngerworkers, the younger managers. and they're learning, enhancing from the knowledgeof those older workers, as opposed to just employingthe older worker to do a task. >> a good question. now, susan,do you wanna keep going?
>> so one of the parts ofour program is asking our mature workers howthey would like to exit the workforcein a dignified way. and quite often they sayi'd like to be a trainer or i'd like to be a mentor ora coach. so we do havea coaching program. unfortunately while everyonewould like to be a coach or a mentor some people justdon't have the skills. so sometimes you do have to havethat difficult conversation and
help the person understand,thanks for volunteering, but you haven't gotthe right skill set. >> thanks i will, thank you. >> andbecause we do rely on people in a lot of instances wehave started a process where everyone developstheir own work manual. and to try and capture thatknowledge and we're owned by honeywell so we have a lotof rules around recruiting. but just of late we've tried toget early approval when we know
someone's going to retire. get their replacement in threeor six months in advance so that their replacementcan spend that whole time learning what they canfrom the mature worker. and then i suppose neverdiscount, a lot of times, how managers do it, like a lotof it's being said about mindset change, a lot of our managerssay well, why bother training him, he's gonna retire anyway,but don't do that. because it's amazing
the willingness ofour older workers. they still want to learn newstuff and pick up new skills and continue to contribute, sodon't push them aside and assume that's not for them. >> right, karen, any mentoringbetween generations? >> definitely.i definitely agree with continue to train. we have employees in ourorganization who are working into their 70s and have given noindication that they're ready to
retire andwe're very grateful for that. we have expert in the fieldwho is in his 70s. and we've identified we'reprobably going to need about three people to replace himwhen he moves on at the moment. >> i haven't even gottwo to replace me. >> [laugh]>> [laugh] so, definitely we have people moving toa knowledge sharing type roll. where they're mentoringother employees to take on, to just accumulate some ofthat knowledge that they have
themselves overa very long career. so definitely where it's beenidentifed where those particular types of skills. we have had people where we'vehelped them free up their time so that they're able to do that. i think that's very important, recognizing the importanceof that, and not just expecting that someone's gonnado those tasks, and then on top of that be also focused,trying to do that on the side.
we have made an effort wherewe've seen particular risks, to free that person up to beable to engage in that and share what they've learnedcuz it's very important. >> jimeela, i haven't askedyou this before, are any of the people with disabilityyou are now employing, are they older people? is there any kind ofgenerational ethereal or are they all pretty youngworkers starting out? >> i'd say that's right.
>> yeah. >> yeah we reallydon't factor that in, in terms of the hiring process. >> right.>> but generally speaking i think you'd say they're onthe younger side of things. >> yeah but they'll be so successful they'll stillbe there when they're old. and then you can have theseintergenerational sharing thing. and allen, mentoring?
>> no it is a good question. in the bus industry there'salmost zero unemployment rate. we're looking fordrivers all the time. if you can get a driverauthority you can start a career in the bus industrywithout any trouble. there is a seniority issue. it's another battleground. we've struggled to get youngerpeople in to our industry, and we do try.
that's another battleground forus, if you like. and we do try to getyounger people in. but there is a degree ofseniority that does exist in bus depots. and i i wouldn't wantto hide behind that and say that it doesn't exist. it's just another challenge forus and that is, how do we get youngerpeople into our industry. the reality of life is,with youth unemployment, the bus
industry would substantiallyreduce that number. if we could convince youngpeople that driving a bus was a worthwhile career, but we struggle to do that because,as you know, buses aren't sexy. trams are, train are, butbuses aren't, unfortunately. and we're just working ontrying to find a sexy bus. [crosstalk]>> [laugh] >> double deckers aren't too bad actually.
double deckers are quite good. people like double deckers, but they don't likethose single ones. >> okay.we're learning. i didn't know there was sortof a hierarchy at 60 that's among differenttransport things. >> absolutely. >> and i do now. now, we'll takeone last question.
>> yes, hi,i'm leonie jackson and i'm the ceo of the deaf society,new south wales. a question for demia,obviously i'm very interested in recruiting people withdisabilities in that area. and i'm wonderingabout your advice, or if you could tell me how tocreate an inclusive environment, how you have been able to forall people. people with disabilities andalso people that don't have disabilities, and if there areany tips or programs implemented
where you can explain to otherpeople about working with people with disabilities andhaving an inclusive environment. >> that's a great question. look, i think this is a very,well, first, a very basic point. i think it's aboutrespect first and if you are to have an inclusive cultureit's got to be leadership-led. and it's got to be a veryimportant part of the value set. so one of our values isto do the right thing and another value that we haveis to work as a team.
and that doesn't mean to work asa team excluding certain people. so, from that point of view it'sgotta be totally inclusive. i think there's also a challengeat the recruitment end as well. there's always the issuearound job fit. and in our organization,we work 24,7. now that is a challenge foranyone. so it's very importantfrom the perspective of being able to cope,potentially, with shift work. and also being able to copewith a customer environment.
we're in a customer environmentwhich can be demanding in itself, a very diverse customerenvironment by the way. but getting that right, getting our providers when theyare recruiting to understand our culture the way wework is very important. all of those thingsthen make for a greater probability ofgetting the job fit right. ensuring then that we havegreater success in terms of the people thatare entering the work force.
and then apart from awarenessrising, i think over time people become more understanding,more tolerant just through being involved, just byseeing people who are different. it's okay to be different. so, there's other aspectsinvolved than that, but i can probably talk forthe next hour on that. we don't have the time. >> well, you could talk foranother hour, you could talk for many more hours because ithink we're all learning so
much about the very enlightened successful approach thismajor employer is taking out. thus, giving inspirationto everyone else. it's not but i think you'llall agree with me ladies and gentlemen that all aboutcompanies here and there. most terrific representativeshave really convinced anyone who remained to be convincedthat all the people, people with disability, can bevery successful employees can contribute enormously tothe success of a business of
any size no matter whatthe product of the business is. if they are recruited properly, if they are supported properly,if they are placed. your last point wasvery important to me, placed in the right role fortheir abilities. then everything can go forward. so i'm hoping that as a resultof what you've been able to tell us and your accounts are,of course, in our report willing to work.
i'm hoping that the accountof all these successful employers of diversity willreally have an impact on all employers throughout australia. public and private, small, largecities, regional, so that we get to our great objective, which iseveryone who is willing to work can work to their benefit andthe benefit of all australians. so thank you everyone forcoming today and assisting in the considerationof this great objective. >> now we do have refreshmentsand i hope you can all stay,
but those of you who can stayplease stay, a network, and get even more inspired by how we'regonna make all this possible. and thanks, particularly,to our ausland interpreters. thank you very much. >> [crosstalk]>> thank you. >> that was good.>> yeah. >> to hear some more ideas.