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judy woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. hari sreenivasan: and i'm hari sreenivasan. judy woodruff: on the "newshour" tonight:president-elect trump talks jobs with the nation's biggest tech industry leaders, ashe announces his choice for secretary of energy. hari sreenivasan: also ahead this wednesday,we sit down with white separatist richard spencer to talk about how he's energized whiteidentity politics during this election. judy woodruff: and technology vs. tradition,the battle over building an ambitious telescope on a sacred hawaiian mountain.
andrea ghez, astronomer, ucla: there's certainlyan element of native rights issues, which is far bigger than astronomy. so, astronomy, i think, right now, is certainlya lightning post for these bigger issues. hari sreenivasan: all that and more on tonight's"pbs newshour." (break) judy woodruff: short-term interest rates aremoving up, for the first time in a year. the federal reserve board's decision todayaffects credit cards, home equity loans and adjustable-rate mortgages. fed policy-makers announced they have increasedthe benchmark rate by a quarter-point.
several big banks followed suit, raising theirprime lending rates to 3.75 percent. at a news conference, fed chair janet yellensaid the central bank now expects to raise rates three more times next year, insteadof two. janet yellen, federal reserve chair: our decisionto raise rates should certainly be understood as a reflection of the confidence we havein the progress the economy has made and our judgment that that progress will continue,and the economy has proven to be remarkably resilient. judy woodruff: we will take a closer lookat the fed's decision and its potential effects later in the program.
hari sreenivasan: silicon valley comes tomanhattan. donald trump received the biggest names inthe u.s. tech world today, and praised their innovation. it came after most of the digital leadersinvited had backed hillary clinton in the campaign. john yang has our report. donald trump (r), president-elect: this isa truly amazing group of people. john yang: today, president-elect trump reachedout to executives from tech giants like amazon, google and facebook.
donald trump: we're going to be there foryou. and you will call my people, you will callme. it doesn't make any difference. we have no formal chain of command aroundhere. john yang: during the campaign, he had a differentmessage, scolding the industry for sending jobs overseas. donald trump: we're going to get apple tostart building their damn computers and things in this country, instead of in other countries. john yang: earlier, mr. trump officially saidhe wanted rick perry to be energy secretary.
he was the longest-serving governor of texas,a leading oil and gas producer. he twice ran for president. during his 2012 bid, perry called for eliminatingthe energy department, but famously couldn't name it during a debate. rick perry (r), former texas governor: it'sthree agencies of government that, when i get there, that are gone, commerce, education,and the -- what's the third one there? let's see. question: you can't name the third one? rick perry: i can't.
the third one, i can't. oops. john yang: last night, at a rally in wisconsin,the president-elect defended his choice of exxonmobil chairman rex tillerson to be secretaryof state. critics say tillerson's too close to russia. donald trump (r), president-elect: a greatdiplomat. a strong man. a tough man. a man who's already earned an avalanche ofendorsements and growing praise from our nation's
top leaders. rex will be a fierce advocate for america'sinterests around the world, and has the insights and talents necessary to help reverse yearsof foreign policy blunders and disasters. john yang: of the fourteen cabinet-level picksmr. trump has announced since the election, 10 of them are white men. so far, the president-elect has selected threewomen of color for top positions, south carolina governor nikki haley for u.n. ambassador,former labor secretary elaine chao to be transportation secretary, and seema verma to oversee medicareand medicaid. the lone african-american choice is housingsecretary-designee dr. ben carson.
yet to be announced by mr. trump, his choicesfor the secretaries of agriculture, interior and veterans affairs. for the "pbs newshour," i'm john yang. hari sreenivasan: this evening, the president-electannounced he's chosen ronna mcdaniel to chair the republican national committee. she's the niece of mitt romney, and currentlychairs the michigan republican party. judy woodruff: in the day's other news: theunited nations human rights commission warned that south sudan is on the brink of -- quote-- "all-out ethnic civil war." the african nation has suffered years of brutalfighting, with tens of thousands killed and
more than a million people displaced. today, in geneva, u.n. officials reportedwidespread atrocities and rapes, with some victims as young as 2 years old. yasmin sooka, chair, united nations commissionon human rights: a u.n. survey found that 70 percent of women in the camp had been rapedsince the conflict erupted, the vast majority of them not by unarmed, unknown men, but bypolice or soldiers. and a staggering 78 percent of them had beenforced to watch someone else being sexually violated. judy woodruff: the commission chief urgedimmediate deployment of another 4,000 u.n.
peacekeepers to south sudan. hari sreenivasan: in syria, there's word thata truce is back on in aleppo, after it failed to take effect this morning. instead, there was a long day of recriminationsand fierce new attacks. from early morning on, gunfire and shellingblasted eastern aleppo. the cease-fire brokered yesterday by russiaand turkey was supposed to allow rebels and civilians safe passage to northern syria. the first buses even arrived to ferry themaway, but they left empty. u.n. officials, rebel groups and activistsblamed syria's ally iran for imposing new
conditions, including a simultaneous evacuationof two villages being shelled by rebels. woman: criminal assad regime and the iranianshave broke the cease-fire, and they are back to attack the civilians and continue the genocide. hari sreenivasan: in ankara, turkish presidentrecep tayyip erdogan faulted syrian forces for breaking the cease-fire. recep tayyip erdogan, turkish president (throughtranslator): we were hoping to evacuate civilians and opposition forces from east aleppo, but,unfortunately, once again, rockets were fired. hari sreenivasan: syrian state tv blamed rebelshelling. and president bashar al-assad rejected anycriticism of his military in a russian tv
interview. bashar al-assad, president of syria (throughtranslator): it doesn't matter what they ask. the translation of their statement is forrussia: please, stop the advancement of the syrian army against the terrorists. that is the meaning of their statement. forget about the rest. you went too far in defeating the terrorists. that shouldn't happen. hari sreenivasan: late today, the u.n. humanrights office warned the syrian government
and its allies have almost certainly committedwar crimes with the renewed assault on aleppo. meanwhile, russian foreign minister sergeilavrov predicted thousands will be able to leave eastern aleppo once it falls. sergei lavrov, russian foreign minister (throughtranslator): i expect that the rebels will cease resistance in the next two to threedays. and the minority that declines to do so, itwill be their own choice. hari sreenivasan: and in washington, the whitehouse charged that russia could have prevented all this carnage by enforcing a truce lastmonth. josh earnest, white house press secretary:the russia couldn't hold up their end of the
bargain. i know they have got all kinds of explanationsfor why that may be the case. most of them are rooted in the fact that they'reeither unable or unwilling to control their client government. hari sreenivasan: tonight came new statementsfrom rebels and the pro-assad alliance that the latest cease-fire is back on. they say evacuations will begin tomorrow atdawn. this evening, turkey announced it will joinrussia and iran in a summit on syria later this month.
judy woodruff: back in this country, it wasanything but a warm wednesday across parts of the plains and the midwest. arctic air triggered windchill advisoriesfor 10 states, from north dakota to ohio. commuters in chicago bundled up to brave thecolder-than-usual conditions, as windchills in that city plunged to minus-15 degrees. the cold wave is moving eastward, followedby snow. hari sreenivasan: there's word of a huge newdata breach at yahoo. the company now says hackers stole informationfrom more than one billion user accounts back in august of 2013.
it's separate from a 2014 breach at yahooinvolving 500 million accounts. judy woodruff: and the rally on wall streetstalled today, as the federal reserve forecast more rate hikes than expected next year. the dow jones industrial average lost 118points to close at 19792. the nasdaq fell 27, and the s&p 500 slipped18. hari sreenivasan: and the library of congressis out with this year's 25 additions to the national film registry. they include the 1980s hits "the breakfastclub," "the princess bride," and "who framed roger rabbit."
also added, disney's "the lion king" and "thelmaand louise." the movies are chosen for special preservationbased on their cultural, historic or artistic importance. still to come on the "newshour": the gop chiefstrategist on trump's latest cabinet picks; reconstructing the russian hacks leading upto the election; a look at the man behind the rise of neo-nazi ideology; and much more. judy woodruff: president-elect trump has nownamed nearly all of his picks to serve in his cabinet, but some are not without theircontroversies. here to discuss some of those choices, andmore, is sean spicer.
he's the chief strategist and communicationsdirector for the republican national committee. he's also an adviser to mr. trump. sean spicer, welcome back to the program. let me start by... sean spicer, communications director, republicannational committee: thanks, judy. judy woodruff: thank you. let me start by asking about the announcementtoday about governor rick perry, former governor of texas, as the secretary of energy. this is someone who we know has had closeties to the oil industry, is not considered
an expert in nuclear energy, which is a majorfocus of that statement, and who during a primary debate forgot the name of the energydepartment when he was asked about federal departments he said he had wanted to eliminate. why rick perry? sean spicer: well, you look at his recordin texas. he's the largest -- longest-serving governorin texas, created almost 2.2 million jobs, largely from finding resources in texas thathe could harness to make sure that people got employed. you look at the number of jobs, and not justthat, but the number of the wages that went
up. i think when donald trump looks at the energysector, he sees that as a place to really create wealth for this country and for individuals,to put americans back to work with good-paying jobs that have benefits. so, he looks to governor perry as someonewith a proven track record of getting that done and as someone who was elected multipletimes as texas governor, showed a tremendous amount of support from the people of texas. judy woodruff: does the president-elect stillbelieve, as he said on the campaign trail, that the science behind climate change isstill not settled, in other words, something
that most climate scientists say is absolutelycorrect? sean spicer: well, i think you just said ityourself, most. and i think that's where his head is at. he understands that there's elements of man,mankind that affect climate, but the exact impact of it and what has to be done to changethat is something there is some dispute about within the community, not just science, butwithin the industry. i think, look, the bottom line is this. he believes in clean air, clean water. he understands the need to preserve areasof this country to make sure that we maintain
the splendor and the environment, but he wantsto do so in a way that ensures that we don't hamper economic growth and job creation. judy woodruff: let me ask you about anotherone of president-elect's choices, and that's rex tillerson to be secretary of state. we have heard, yes, a number of republicansenators are on board, but several say they have concerns. marco rubio says his concerns are serious. john mccain said -- quote -- he has concernsabout what kind of business we do "with a butcher, a murderer, and a thug," which ishow he describes vladimir putin.
how do you respond to this? sean spicer: well, with all due respect, judy,that's two. that's not several. and i think that we're going to continue towork with them, and not just republicans, but democrats. look, i have spent some time talking to rextillerson. he's an amazing human being. he's an american success story, not just inhis business life. he's a rags-to-riches success story.
he stated working at 8, lived in a one-bedroomhouse until the time he went to college and grew to become the ceo of one of the world'slargest companies. he truly is the embodiment of the americandream. on a personal level, he is just an amazingperson. and i think when you look at his track recordit in business, a world-class businessman that has relationships with over 200 countriesspanning four decades, he's tough by all accounts. he gets the job done and largely is unbelievablysuccessful. that's what we need, to bring his businessexperience and acumen and understanding of the geopolitical world that we are in todayto fight for america and put america's interests
first. there's no question, i think, as more andmore people get to know rex tillerson, they're going to be really proud of the choice thatdonald trump made as our next secretary of state. judy woodruff: well, another russia storythat certainly we're all following this week, that is the report out of the intelligencecommunity, in particular by the cia, that the russian -- that russian officials werebehind the attempt, the cyber-attack against the democratic national committee and otherprominent democrats, and that in fact it appears it was done in order to tilt the electionin favor of mr. trump.
how do you -- we now have several senators,including the senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, saying there needs to be a seriousand thorough investigation. is the president-elect prepared to cooperatewith this investigation wherever it leads? sean spicer: well, it's not a question ofcooperate. if they want to have a hearing -- or excuseme -- hearing or investigation, they should. but i think that like, with all -- i wouldlike to sort of de-pack that for a second. you know, there's evidence that suggests thatrussian entities were behind probing different sites and databases. there is zero evidence that they had any impacton the outcome of this election.
donald trump won with 306 electoral votes,2,300 counties and 62 million americans voted for him. so there's a big difference between russiaor other entities trying to hack a system or probe a system, as is the case in a lotof -- but there was zero evidence that they had any impact on the outcome. in fact, prior to the election, it was theu.s. government, the department of homeland security in particular, that was reassuringamericans that because our voting system is so disparate, and we use different votingmachines in so many different precincts, that there is no way that anyone could have animpact on the election.
so, i really find it somewhat reprehensiblethat so many entities on the left, and, frankly, some in the media are now trying to underminethe legitimacy of this election. the fact is, prior to the election, it wasmade very clear, by all of them, that our electoral system and our voting systems wereironclad and that they couldn't be hack or interrupted, particularly because of how wevote as a country in terms of various precincts and counties throughout the country that usedifferent systems that are never actually attached to it. so, to now turn back and attempt to delegitimizethis election is frankly sad and pathetic. judy woodruff: well, with all due respect-- and i do want to ask you another question
in addition -- it is not just the media thatis reporting what the cia... sean spicer: no, it's the left. judy woodruff: well, the media and, again,republican senators, including mitch mcconnell, who are saying there needs to be an investigation. but, sean spicer, i want to ask you one anotherthing. a man you know very well, reince priebus,who has been the chairman of the republican party, now named to be the chief of staffunder president-elect trump, said in an interview today that he thinks there are going to befewer press briefings. in other words...
(crosstalk) sean spicer: no, that's not what he said. actually, no, no, no. with all due respect, judy, not to keep usingthe phrase over and over again, but he didn't say that. he was asked by a radio talk show host ifall of the traditions and business as usual were going to be kept, and he threw out abunch of suggestions and said, we need to rethink everything. and he threw out a bunch of different ideasand said, you know, we should rethink some
of these. do we need to do everything every day? does it need to be on camera, some of thestuff that, frankly, your own colleagues and different academic institutions have questionedas well. so, please, don't turn that on us. we only cited several things that would beunder consideration. and, frankly, a lot of them, the press haseven been very supportive of. judy woodruff: then final question. when will mr. trump hold a full news conference,so that reporters who cover him can ask questions?
sean spicer: well, he's made himself availablemultiple times to the media. he sat down with the new york times, 30 or40 reporters, for an hour-and-a-half the other day. he's been down in front of the pool camerasseveral times this week. but i think you should expect full press conferenceprobably right after the holidays. judy woodruff: sean spicer, adviser to president-electtrump, thank you very much. sean spicer: thank you very much, judy. hari sreenivasan: the recent reports thatthe u.s. intelligence community believes russia sought to help donald trump win the electionthrough the hacking of democratic political
organizations has rocked the country. as we just heard, president-elect trump dismissesthe idea that russia was responsible or that it wanted him to win the white house. today's new york times featured an extensivetimeline of the hacking, and what it may have wrought. i'm joined now by one of the reporters whowrote the story, eric lipton, and by dmitri alperovitch. he is the co-founder of crowdstrike, the cyber-intelligencefirm that investigated the hacking of the dnc.
eric lipton, i want to start with you. your reporting shows a really large gap betweenwhen the fbi reached out to the dnc and when president obama or the u.s. government attributedthat these hacks were by the russians. what caused this? eric lipton, the new york times: that's right. i mean, it was september of 2015 that thefbi first reached out to the dnc to alert an i.t. contractor who worked there that thereappeared to be someone operating within their system, and that operator was perhaps linkedto russian hackers. and it wasn't until october of 2016, so morethan a year later, that the administration
and the intelligence agencies formally issueda statement attributing that cyber-attack to the russian actors. and so that's quite a long time. and it was -- many, many months passed betweenwhen the fbi first essentially called the dnc and the time in which the dnc in factconfirmed that the hackers were present. that didn't take place until late april. so there was quite a delay. and that delay occurred at a time when thepresidential election was playing out. and then the hacked e-mails then became publicand had an influence on that process.
hari sreenivasan: dmitri alperovitch, withindays of your company getting the contract with the dnc, you figured out who was behindthis. how did you do it? dmitri alperovitch, co-founder and ceo, crowdstrike:well, the dnc called us in, in may of 2016, in may of this year. they wanted us to check out these anomalousactivities that they were starting to see on the network. and we deployed our technology called falconon every machine within the company, within the corporation.
and basically it allowed to us essentiallysee everything that was happening on every server and laptop and desktop at the democraticnational committee. and what we found is that there were two actorsindependently operating within that network. and the tradecraft that they were using, thetools that they were using and other digital forensics, sort of digital fingerprints, ifyou will, indicators that we picked up, matched to the indicators that we had previously associatedwith these two groups. they are called fancy bear and cozy bear,and that we affiliated with russian intelligence agencies. hari sreenivasan: eric, as dmitri's softwarepointed out, this wasn't the first time that
russians had done this. it just seems to be an escalation. eric lipton: that's right. certainly, during the obama and mccain race,there was hacking that occurred there. and there has been quite a number of federalagencies that have been attacked and infiltrated by some of the same players that went intothe dnc. so, and, in fact, the director of nationalintelligence gave a warning in 2015, saying there was already evidence that there was-- folks were targeting the presidential candidates for this year's elections.
so there was lot of reasons to be on the guardfor a possible cyber-attack. and so you have to wonder why -- that said,the russians, if in fact it was the russians -- and everything suggests that it was -- arequite, you know, quite skilled at infiltrating systems. but you do sort of wonder why there wasn'ta higher state of alert at the dnc to detect and stop an incursion. hari sreenivasan: dmitri, is the standardoperating procedure for the fbi and how they warn companies? it seemed, in eric's report, at the beginning,they were dealing with a low-level i.t. guy
who was a subcontractor, and that person didn'teven believe that it was actually an fbi call. dmitri alperovitch: well, i think you haveto appreciate that the fbi does literally hundreds of notifications like this on a weeklybasis. there's a lot of intrusions that are happeningin our country from a variety of different nation-state adversaries that the fbi picksup in the course of their investigations. so most of the time, they just don't havethe resources to do more than try to call and notify a corporation. i think in this case, however, given the high-profiletarget, given that this was an election season, i think more should have been done.
given the proximity of the dnc to the fbiheadquarters, just about a mile away, someone could have gone to the dnc and notified themin person. hari sreenivasan: you know, eric, one of thestories -- you had a separate piece about this, but one of the things that got buriedin this while we were all focused on the dnc hack and perhaps the podesta e-mails werehow some of this information actually made it down into very key house races, the hackinto the dccc, the congressional campaign committee. so, at the same time as the hackers got intothe dnc, they share a building and actually have a connection between the computer systemof the dnc and the democratic congressional
campaign committee. and so they were able to take tens of thousandsof pages of documents from the dccc, which oversees the house races by democrats. they took these documents and then they distributedthem to bloggers and reporters in individual states at key moments, like right before specificdebates, before primaries, to try to damage the standing of the democratic candidates. and all the documents that went out were relatedto, you know, opposition research other collections of documents from the democrats. those document dumps, you know, had real consequenceson some democrats.
so, while the trump folks suggest that thishad no impact on the election, i think, if you look at some of the house races, in particularin florida, there was a particular house race where the party wanted one woman who was running,annette taddeo, to be their candidate, and she lost after the document dump embarrassedher, and it became a subject of debates and news coverage. and that was -- that was consequential. and it didn't get much attention from themedia, because we were so focused on other things. hari sreenivasan: dmitri, we just have a fewseconds.
are there enough measures in place in preventingthis from happening again? dmitri alperovitch: i think every organizationneeds to assume that they are compromised. we see so much of these intrusions from nation-statesand criminal groups that it's a daily occurrence for organizations, companies, and nonprofitsand government agencies alike. so everyone needs to be focused on doing compromiseassessments to make sure that their networks are truly clean. hari sreenivasan: all right, dmitri alperovitchfrom crowdstrike, eric lipton from the new york times, thank you both. eric lipton: thank you.
dmitri alperovitch: thank you. judy woodruff: white nationalist groups saythat donald trump's electoral victory was also a win for their brand of white identitypolitics. a man named richard spencer has helped toshape this racist ideology. he has gained notoriety in recent weeks forstatements that most find abhorrent, but that have increased his following. the "newshour"'s p.j. tobia has the story. p.j. tobia: richard spencer wants to redefinewhat it means to be american. he's credited with coining the phrase alt-right,adding an intellectual veneer to a racist
movement based on a mix of white nationalism,neo-nazi beliefs and hard-edged populism. richard spencer, national policy institute:this country does belong to white people, culturally, politically, socially, everything. we define what america is. p.j. tobia: last week, he spoke at texas a&muniversity. richard spencer: look at the history of multiracialnations. it's a history of conflict. it's a history of distrust. p.j. tobia: tempers quickly flared insidethe auditorium, while, outside, protesters
denounced his message of white identity politicsand confronted his supporters. the demonstrators tried to storm the meetingroom, but were pushed back by police. during the presidential campaign, spencerand his followers were a small, but vocal pillar of support for donald trump, mostlyactive online, targeting those critical of the republican nominee with ugly, sometimesanti-semitic attacks. media profiles of spencer followed, focusingon his privileged upbringing, education at elite institutions and sartorial choices. then came this event in november celebratingdonald trump's election victory in downtown washington, d.c.
richard spencer: america was, until this pastgeneration, a white country. p.j. tobia: it was a forum for the nationalpolicy institute, a kind of white nationalist think tank spencer runs. his keynote address ended with nazi salutes. richard spencer: hail trump. hail our people. hail victory. (cheering and applause) p.j. tobia: the holocaust museum, anti-defamationleague and others denounced the speech as
an anti-semitic attack. spencer says his racist provocations are purposeful. richard spencer: the alt-right has come along way. donald trump as a -- you know, as a firststep toward identity politics has a come a long way. it was a time to be a little outlandish, andso that's why i did that applause line, which was a bit naughty. p.j. tobia: a bit naughty? i mean, we're talking about -- people are"sieg heiling."
we're talking about an ideology that hundredsof thousands of americans died to extinguish. and it's a bit of fun? richard spencer: right. whenever anyone says that i care about mypeople, i care about my identity, i want to expand and deepen my identity, the first thingyou always hear -- and it's become a joke -- is, ah, adolf hitler, ah, the ku klux klan,ah, the southern confederacy. it's these boogeymen that are thrown at anylegitimate and genuine movement for identity. and i think at some level people want to throwthem back in the face of their attackers. p.j. tobia: when a journalist writes somethingthat your guys don't like, you know, it's
a picture of her superimposed in an oven. i mean, you could see the concern there. richard spencer: it's pixels and words. p.j. tobia: and a swastika is just an image. but it's not just an image, man. i think you know that. i'm positive that you know that. i think you're just trolling. (laughter)
richard spencer: i'm not a very good troll. no, look, i -- there is a line to be crossed,and to a point where i won't defend anyone, and that is any kind of imminent, real, physicalthreat of violence. p.j. tobia: despite spencer's privileged upbringingand lifestyle, his are a politics of victimhood. richard spencer: if you were born in 1978,like i was, or 1988 or to '98, you have experienced being a minority. you have experienced, let's say, undergraduatelife, where you have gone through some white guilt indoctrination. you have experienced trying to get a job ata major corporation, where you know that their
hiring is geared almost totally towards nothiring you. p.j. tobia: those who know white nationalismbest say that spencer's message, newly packaged for millennials in sharp suits and clevermemes, are in fact a very old product. frank meeink, author, "autobiography of arecovering skinhead": at the heart and at the core of the alt-right, no matter whatthey say, it's all about race. p.j. tobia: frank meeink is former neo-nazifrom south philly. as a youth, he hosted a cable access showcalled "the reich." by age 18, he was doing hard time for kidnappingand torture, but left the movement shortly after getting out of prison.
frank meeink: every bit of it is about race. it all comes from that. and if you look deeper, it comes from fear,fear that the white race is losing this country, fear that -- the mexicans coming in. it's all about fear. they're losing something. p.j. tobia: he says this sense of loss hasalways been a part of the radical right. frank meeink: i always hear the same arguments:well, they have bet. why can't we have white entertainment television?
well, all of television is white entertainmenttelevision. so it's like this -- they're getting somethingthat i'm not, and everything's being taken away from me. p.j. tobia: meeink now coaches youth hockeyto steer kids in the right direction. he says, if spencer does have influence ina trump administration, he'd use it to roll back affirmative action and diversity programs. and meeink doesn't believe that spencer'snazi arm salutes are merely ironic. frank meeink: it's not a joke when there'speople whose family members were killed in the holocaust because of people doing thatarm salute, because of people mindlessly just
following their hatred and their bigotry andknowing that it doesn't piss off liberals. what it does is, it scares human beings whocare about humanity. p.j. tobia: and despite all his high-mindedtalk of theory and history, sometimes, when challenged, richard spencer resorts to basicinsults. richard spencer: she's dancing. perhaps she will lose some weight. p.j. tobia: spencer's dream is an all-whitenation. in the near term, he wants to set up an officefor his national policy institute, currently run from his home.
the institute was established in 2005 withfunds from william regnery ii and others. they hold press conferences, publish studies,a journal and white nationalist blog posts. the southern poverty law center calls theinstitute and others like it academic racist organizations. richard spencer: now we have a place at thetable. so, that is a major achievement. a lot of that has to do with trump, obviously. and what i want to do is to start to influenceculture more directly, start to influence policy more directly, start to influence societymore directly.
that's going to involve professionalization. that is building real institutions here inthe real world. p.j. tobia: the trump campaign didn't respondto a request for comment on this story. nonetheless, spencer thinks america is readyfor his message. richard spencer: the alt-right has gone froma movement that wasn't connected to the mainstream to a movement that's now really connectedto the mainstream. p.j. tobia: richard spencer has energizeda tiny group of passionate followers. man: it's about reawakening people of america,and get white people to stand up for their roots and to quit being put down by thingslike black lives matter.
p.j. tobia: with the election of donald trump,racist groups of all stripes are hoping their message will be more widely accepted, butthe protests that greeted spencer and his followers at texas a&m are proof that mainstreammay be a bridge too far for white nationalism. for the "pbs newshour," i'm p.j. tobia incollege station, texas. hari sreenivasan: today's interest rate hikeby the fed marks just the second time it has raised rates since the 2008 financial crisisand the major recession that followed. so, when fed chairwoman janet yellen announcesa move like that, even one that's widely expected, it is still a big deal. jeffrey brown continues.
jeffrey brown: over the last year, the fedhad signaled several times that a rate hike was imminent, only to back away as economicgrowth stayed sluggish. today, though, the move by the federal reserveboard of governors was unanimous, restarting a move upward from historically low interestrates. why now, and what is the fed seeing? we turn once again to diane swonk, an economistwith her own consulting firm in chicago. diane, welcome back. start there. why now?
what is the fed seeing? diane swonk, founder, ds economics: well,we are seeing some inflation. and the economy -- the fed is sort of lookingat things getting stronger, and it's an acknowledgment that the u.s. economy is stronger. it's actually raised rates. i think they could have done it in september. there was this postponement to december. it's more than time for the fed to raise rates. and, in fact, i think janet yellen also signaledvery clearly that this is a turning point
for the fed. they not only -- not are we just seeing aforecast of rate hikes next year. i think we're going to see much more thanone. now, it only takes two to get more than one. i think we will get the three that the fedis expecting. jeffrey brown: they're seeing an economy thatis growing, perhaps even too fast, enough that they want to raise rates. that's after an election in which many americanssaw an economy that wasn't growing fast enough for them.
diane swonk: it actually isn't an acknowledgmentthat the economy is growing too fast. the monetary policy is still very, very easy. to think of this, you kind of think of itas the fed is not taking the punch away from the party. they're just not spiking it anymore. they're worried about some people gettinga little tipsy on the side, some real estate bubbles they're very concerned about in thecommercial real estate market. and although they didn't state it explicitly,the run-up in the stock market that we have seen since the election has a lot of attributesof a bubble.
and there is certainly going to be some concernabout that within the circle for the fed. jeffrey brown: well, and, of course, the bigquestion is to what extent does the election of donald trump changes the game, right, andchanges the economic outlook, and, therefore, the outlook for interest rates, with tax hikesor stimulus. what did janet yellen say about that today? diane swonk: well, clearly, there are somewithin the fed -- there are participants at the meeting that actually did put that intotheir forecasts. and most of them didn't. and i think she was very cautious to say thecloud of uncertainty regarding policy, because
the fed is in the situation that they havegot to react to actual policy, not promises of policy changes. and the spectrum of what could happen areboth bad and good, depending on whether they're protectionist policies that might raise inflationwithout boosting growth or whether they're pro-stimulus, pro-growth policies that willraise inflation by actually raising growth. the spectrum is very vague. and we don't have any policies yet to reactto. so, i think that's very important. the other issue that's very clear, chair yellenmade a real attempt to assert the fed's independence
without provoking the new president-elect,because she was really sort of walking on eggshells in an effort to, this is what isexpected, this is what we're doing, but didn't want to provoke president-elect trump, becausehe did criticize her very much on the campaign trail. the people they're talking about replacing-- putting into two seats in the federal reserve that are currently are going to be very hostileto chair yellen. and she asserted that, listen, she's not goinganywhere. her term goes until next year. and she even intimated that she might stickaround longer and fulfill her term.
we have only had one fed chair ever that,once they were done with their term as fed chair, stayed on as governor. jeffrey brown: he was, indeed, very criticalof her. and, as you say, she just has one year. so, you're thinking there is the possibilityhere of some kind of coming dispute, open dispute? diane swonk: i think there's going to be alot of open dispute. the two fed chairs that are going to be filledare going to be filled by people who don't like what this federal reserve has done, andthey're going to be critical of it, and they're
going to be, in fact, confirmed by being critical. now, there may be buyer's remorse later onif they raise rates a lot, and these are people who end up taking over the fed, because they'regoing to replace not only two fed seats. they're also going to have the attempt toreplace the chair and replace the vice chair within about a year-and-a-half. so, president-elect trump is going to havea lot of impact on the fed at the same time that congress is looking to have oversightto be able to make the fed sort of acquiesce to political cycles, instead of economic cycles. jeffrey brown: diane swonk, thank you verymuch.
diane swonk: thank you. judy woodruff: and now to our continuing seriesof conversations with outgoing members of the obama administration. secretary of agriculture tom vilsack is thelast original member of the obama cabinet. he is also the former governor of iowa. we began the conversation by looking aheadto his yet-to-be-named successor in the trump administration. tom vilsack, u.s. agriculture secretary: iwould say that, from an agricultural perspective, i have a little bit of concern, because someof the folks i don't know are particularly
supportive of the renewable fuel industryand the renewable fuel standard, which is a big part of certainly midwestern agriculture. and i'm hopeful that, when we see his ultimateselection for ag secretary, that we will see someone who is a strong advocate for renewablefuels, and what that means to midwestern producers. and, for that matter, now, all over the country,we're seeing more and more of the biofuels being produced from a variety of sources. judy woodruff: so, renewable fuels. any other signals that you have seen him giveas it affects agriculture policy, food stamp policy, a big part of what the departmentdoes?
tom vilsack: well, on a positive side, hisdesignee to be ambassador to china, former -- or current governor terry branstad fromiowa, who i think is actually a good selection because of his relationship with presidentxi in china and his longstanding relationship with the president, and the fact that governorbranstad is a tireless advocate for agriculture. so, there's sort of a good news opportunitythere, i think, especially with our number one trading partner. still yet to be determined about the impacton some of the poverty programs like snap. this is a very effective poverty-reducingprogram. we're seeing reduced rolls in snap.
so, it will be interesting. judy woodruff: this is food stamps. tom vilsack: food stamps, yes. it will be interesting to see what, if anything,is proposed. i think a lot of people don't understand themakeup of the snap population, of the food stamp population, 80 percent senior citizens,people with disabilities, children, and those who are actually in the work force working. judy woodruff: and it's interesting you shouldsay that, because some congressional republicans are talking about overhauling it.
we have yet to hear, i think, from mr. trumphimself on that. tom vilsack: yes, i think that there's a misunderstanding. the folks who are not -- who are able-bodied,who are adults, who don't have dependents, there's a desire to make sure that they getto work and that they aren't basically gaming the system. but the reality is, they have a responsibilityto either be involved in work or education, or they're limited in terms of their benefits. so, i think it's going to be a little bitmore difficult than they might assume to overhaul that program.
it's a working program. judy woodruff: the election, donald trumpdid much better with and among rural vote voters than did the democratic party nominee,hillary clinton. why do you think that is? what was it about -- that he said and hisappeal that wasn't there on her part? tom vilsack: well, i think, actually, it goesfar beyond one election cycle. i think the democrats have -- we really havefailed to be in rural america, in the sense of having our leaders spending time talkingto folks in rural america. the president has been there, but other thanthe president and vice president, we have
had not a whole lot of conversation in ruralamerica. judy woodruff: including by hillary clinton? tom vilsack: well, hillary clinton was thereduring the iowa caucuses, but i think the nature of a campaign makes it more difficultonce you become the candidate. but there's a messaging opportunity here throughout,not just in the election season, but before the election, the opportunity to underscorewhat government is doing in a positive way in partnership with rural folks. i think it's a messaging issue. it's being there physically, talking to folks,listening to people, respecting and admiring
what they do, and then making sure that theyunderstand precisely what the partnership is. i will give you an example. very few people know that my department isresponsible for 1.2 million home loans since i have been secretary. that's 1.2 million families that are livingin homes in rural america that would never have homeownership, but for the united statesdepartment of agriculture's programs. we have to do more of educating people aboutthe partnership that does exist between rural america and their government.
judy woodruff: so, you're saying it's principallya messaging issue, that the policies are right? because when you talk to voters in some ofthese areas, they're saying they just think washington, as it is today, just doesn't evencare who they are. tom vilsack: five -- over 5,000 water projectshave been financed by my department. we have invested billions of dollars in economicopportunity. we have supported over 100,000 businesses,supporting nearly half-a-million jobs in rural america. the unemployment rate has been cut nearlyin half. the poverty rate has come down faster thanit has in 25 years.
the food insecurity rate among children isits lowest in history. yes, i think it is a messaging issue, judy. i think we have not done a good job of explainingto people in rural america what is actually happening, number one. and, number two, we're not expressing appreciationand acknowledging the contribution that rural america makes. where does your food come from? where does the water come from? where does the energy feedstock come from?
it all comes from rural areas. where does your military come from? nearly 35 to 40 percent of the military isfrom 15 percent of america's population living in rural america. it makes a tremendous contribution to thiscountry. it just isn't recognized. judy woodruff: so, how do democrats turn thataround? tom vilsack: well, i think, first and foremost,showing up, making sure that we focus not just on elections, not just on presidentialelections, but we begin the process of rebuilding
the infrastructure of the party at the grassroots. we begin going out to all those rural countiesand begin having a conversation with rural voters and making sure that we hear theirconcerns, hear their complaints, and also educate them about what we are doing, makingsure that we focus on state legislative races, not just congressional, senate, governor,and presidential races. i think it's incredibly important that wehave a greater investment in infrastructure. judy woodruff: two final questions. as you prepare to leave the department ofagriculture, what do you think you have done that's made the most difference?
tom vilsack: well, the rural economy is significantlybetter. children in this country will be healthierin the long run because of the changes we have made in school lunch and school snackprograms. our natural resources, particularly our workinglands, are more resilient. and more money is being invested in soil conservationand water preservation. our forests will be in better shape if congressdoes what it needs to do to fix the fire-suppression budget. but i think we're leaving the department,we're leaving rural america, we're leaving the country, and particularly the youngstersof this country in better shape than when
we found them in 2009. that seems to me to be the threshold question:are things better or worse than they were in 2009? i think people have to remember where we werein 2009. we were losing 800,000 jobs a month. we had an unemployment rate in double digits. we had poverty rates soaring. we had kids who were food insecure. today, we have a lot less unemployment, alot less poverty, and a lot fewer kids who
are food insecure. judy woodruff: and in just a few words, whatis the part of president obama's legacy that you think is most likely it to endure, giventhat we're about to turn the executive branch over to someone who has very different politicalviews? tom vilsack: well, i think president obamais going to be treated very, very well by history in terms of his ability to save theeconomy. and that's certainly true in rural areas. again, the unemployment rate is substantiallyreduced, the poverty rate is down, and in large part because of the investments thatwere made during the recovery act and thereafter,
historic investments. record amounts of investment has been madein the infrastructure in rural areas. there's still work to be done, no question. but we're in much better shape than we werebefore, number one. and, number two, i think, certainly, he hascreated an opportunity for america to understand that diversity is a blessing, diversity isa strength. it isn't necessarily something to be concernedabout. and i think, at the end of the day, we'regoing to learn that this country operates best when it celebrates and surrounds itselfand appreciates diversity, and doesn't shun
it. judy woodruff: secretary of agriculture tomvilsack, thank you for talking with us in your final month or two of being in that position. thank you. tom vilsack: you bet. hari sreenivasan: finally tonight, a mostunusual battle between scientists and native hawaiians over the construction of a massiveobservatory. and it is all about a plan to build the largesttelescope on earth on a shield volcano. astronomers say it can offer unique sightsto view the cosmos, but it would be created
on what is also considered sacred ground. science correspondent miles o'brien has ourreport for our weekly look at the leading edge of science and technology. miles o'brien: for astronomers, it may bethe ultimate focal point this side of outer space. the 14,000-foot summit of mauna kea on theisland of hawaii is home to 13 observatories that have rewritten the textbooks. astronomer andrea ghez is a frequent visitor,here to learn more about the black hole at the center of our galaxy.
andrea ghez, astronomer, ucla: i feel likea kid in a candy shop. we have got lots to do, lots -- a lot of interestingproblems that we're working on that's been enabled with advanced technology. and further advances are just going to makethat all the better. miles o'brien: ghez uses the most powerfulobservatory here, the keck, which has two 10-meter-wide mirrors. but plans to shed more light on her star questare stuck in a black hole of resentment and anger. it turns out what's precious to the scientistsis sacred to the native hawaiian culture.
pua case, activist: there's no word for howi feel about that mountain in english. there's no word that would be deep enoughto say how i feel about that mountain. miles o'brien: pua case is one of the mostvocal opponents of the $1.4 billion 30-meter telescope, the tmt. it is the next big observatory on the horizon,and astronomers believe the summit of mauna kea is the ideal place to build it. pua case: this mountain peaks into the realmof the sky father to wakea. it's where i go when i need to say my prayers,when i want to be heard, because i know my voice is closest to the heavens when i amthere.
miles o'brien: their protests emerged at thegroundbreaking on october 7, 2014. opponents successfully argued the approvalprocess was illegally circumvented, and so the hawaiian supreme court revoked the buildingpermit, forcing the project to start the long process over. gary sanders, project manager, thirty metertelescope: so, there's going to be 492 glass mirrors this size. miles o'brien: gary sanders is project managerof the tmt. it is a multinational partnership involvingscience enterprises in the u.s., canada, india, japan, and china.
gary sanders: scientists, we love what wedo. we adore it. ok? we just don't understand sometimes that thosearound us, while they might be pleased with it, even excited by it, may not adore it theway we do. that's a blind spot. miles o'brien: observatories started appearingon the summit of mauna kea about 60 years ago. there was always opposition, but it blossomedin the late 1990s, when nasa proposed four
smaller telescopes be placed beside the bigkeck mirrors to enhance their resolution. but the idea was scuttled amid local opposition. tmt managers say they tried to learn fromthat experience. gary sanders: we tried as best we could tomeet the concerns and actually to become part of the community, rather than mere visitorsof the community. so, when the opposition emerged, the additionalopposition emerged as we began the groundbreaking and the construction, frankly, we were surprised. woman: you let mount fuji stand. mount fuji is sacred.
our mauna kea is just as sacred as mount fuji. please hear us. miles o'brien: the tmt project took shapewhile native hawaiians were rediscovering their cultural heritage. peter apo is a singer, songwriter and trusteeof the office of hawaiian affairs, a state agency that aims to improve the lives of hawaiians. peter apo, office of hawaiian affairs: thetmt issue is largely under the umbrella of what hawaiians refer to as nationhood. that is a strong feeling that the way hawaiibecame the 50th state of the nation, beginning
with annexation, was illegal. so, the tmt and other issues like it reallyspring from this unresolved and unreconciled question of self-determination. andrea ghez: there's certainly an elementof native rights issues, which is far bigger than astronomy. miles o'brien: andrea ghez is focused on oneof the big issues in astronomy at the very heart of the galaxy. she and her team have proven the existenceof a black hole there by tracking how stars orbit around it.
but, in science, the answers often spark newquestions. andrea ghez: almost everything we see thereis inconsistent with our models, so it's making us scratch our heads. but i keep reminding myself that we are onlyseeing the brightest things, and it would be like trying to understand the financialmarket if you could only see the biggest transactions. miles o'brien: in astronomy, the solutionis to build bigger and better telescopes. and a mirror 30 meters in diameter would bea hundred times more powerful than keck's, but it would be one of the largest movingstructures ever constructed. the building will be 18-stories tall.
pua case: the construction, the destruction,and the desecration to a sacred place, to any mountain anywhere, you can never changethat. you can never go back. we know how grateful we are to be in thiscircle on this mauna today. and you lead us, great mountain, and you tellus what to do. and we align with you in the heart. i don't even pay that telescope no mind, becausei know it won't be built. they know it won't be built. ancestors will not allow it.
miles o'brien: so, while the tmt project pursuesa new permit, it is also hedging its bets, choosing an alternate site in the canary islands. astronomers say that would be a huge lossfor hawaii. andrea ghez: it's a treasure to have somethingthat's so valuable to our knowledge that we can achieve. it can be best done here. peter apo: one of the challenges that we haveis that, when you use the word sacred, it means no discussion. so, they won't come to the table to discussanything, because there will be no compromise.
the tmt will not be built. so that makes it a little bit difficult totalk about anything. miles o'brien: if the tmt moves on from hawaii,mauna kea will still remain a powerful perch to study the cosmos for decades, but it couldbe the beginning of the end of an era of leading edge scientific discovery here. and it may be symbolic turning point in anuphill battle for a culture that feels forgotten and unappreciated. miles o'brien, the "pbs newshour," on maunakea. judy woodruff: on the "newshour" online rightnow: making sense columnist phil moeller looks
at a proposed bill to reform social securityand advocates for the need -- advocates, that is, for the need to adequately fund that agency. also, we look at a new musical based on atragic chapter of world war ii in england. all that and more is on our web site, pbs.org/newshour. hari sreenivasan: and that's the "newshour"for tonight. i'm hari sreenivasan. judy woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. join us online and again right here tomorrowevening. for all of us at the "pbs newshour," thankyou, and good night.